[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 Pass  Pass  1♥    2♥
 4♥    Dbl   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

Hi whilst bidding and playing this contract, I was reasonably happy with our bidding and play and potential result,

BUT, not so afterwards, we had a slam nice and simple, I have a few questions

what are your opinions of the following statements

1/. michaels, my thoughts are nice 5/5 split and nice and strong so good bid

2/. 1 spade overcall of 1 heart then rebid clubs

3/. after 4!h I would prefer my p to bid 4nt to ask which minor suit I had

4/. x of 4 hearts was good and we did well to get -800

5/. could I risk bidding 5 clubs on my own with out p?

6/. is 1 heart a pshyce?

[geofspa]

I sat North for this one and for the life of me I can't see why I didn't open!

[geofspa]

Further to may last .... with an unbalanced hand I tend to look at losers and quick tricks.

Here I have 7 losers and 2.5 QT an opener for me in any seat. It does get difficult to find a rebid if partner (as here is likely) bids 1♠ I can't bid 2♦ (a reverse) but would have to rebid a poor 5 card ♣ suit.

As it turns out this would work out very well but that is "resulting"

[Chamaco]

East's opening with less than 8 hcp is illegal , even as psyche (in low-midflight events), in several if not most of Bridge Federations.

[geofspa]

On the auction as occured at the table I sat for a long time pondering as to whether to X or bid 4NT ... from my stand point either bid could be best as my partner may well have a weak michaels bid, or am I looking at it wrongly in that if he has a weak hand we need to play in one of the minors.

[the hog]

Nths x is ridiculous with such good support for both minors. 100% blame to Nth.

[Walddk]

Chamaco, on Mar 17 2005, 05:54 AM, said:

East's opening with less than 8 hcp is illegal , even as psyche (in low-midflight events), in several if not most of Bridge Federations.

I doubt it. Let's have some evidence. Which countries? Whether it's ethical or good bridge (especially against weak opponents) or not is irrelevant, but where is it forbidden to open with less than 8 hcp?

Roland

[Chamaco]

In Italy it is forbidden even to psyche a 1 level opener with < 8hcp.

I can give you the link to the Rules, they are online at the FIGB site (in Italian though):

http://www.federbridge.it/Regolamenti/doc/...einterventi.pdf

Page 1: They specifically state that a 1 level (even a psyche) MUST contain 8+ hcp.

opening a "natural" or psychic at the 1 level is sanctioned.

[Walddk]

Chamaco, on Mar 17 2005, 06:21 AM, said:

In Italy it is forbidden even to psyche a 1 level opener with < 8hcp.

I can give you te link to the Rules, they are online at the FIGB site (in Italian though)

Fine in Italy, but you wrote "in several if not most Bridge Federations". Where is the evidence? I am sure you are mistaken.

Roland

[Chamaco]

Walddk, on Mar 17 2005, 11:24 AM, said:

Chamaco, on Mar 17 2005, 06:21 AM, said:

In Italy it is forbidden even to psyche a 1 level opener with < 8hcp.

I can give you te link to the Rules, they are online at the FIGB site (in Italian though)

Fine in Italy, but you wrote "in several if not most Bridge Federations". Where is the evidence? I am sure you are mistaken.

Roland

You sure have more experience and knowledge than me.

I seem to remember ACBL is one federation with such rulings, but not sure about it.

[Chamaco]

I have just browsed the UK Federation "Orange Book"

http://www.ebu.co.uk/publications/Laws%20a...nded%202005.pdf

At page 32, it states that a 1-level opener must have either 11 hcp OR comply to the "rule of 19" (e.g. if u open with 7 hcp you should have 12 cards in your longest suits).
I did not find info about the possible sanctions for psyching with weaker hands.


I would be really curious to know the strict requirements (e.g. possible sanctions - in low-midflight events - for opening at level 1 with weaker hands).

I will probably start a thread both here and on rec.games.bridge (hoping for David Stevenson's knowledgeable contribution )

[pbleighton]

In the ACBL you can't open at the one level with less than 8, except for psyches.

Peter

[hrothgar]

Chamaco, on Mar 17 2005, 02:21 PM, said:

In Italy it is forbidden even to psyche a 1 level opener with < 8hcp.

I can give you the link to the Rules, they are online at the FIGB site (in Italian though):

http://www.federbridge.it/Regolamenti/doc/...einterventi.pdf

Page 1: They specifically state that a 1 level (even a psyche) MUST contain 8+ hcp.

opening a "natural" or psychic at the 1 level is sanctioned.

Chamco

This forum is about bridge, not the bastardized game played in Italy. I recognize that the Italian Bridge Federation has passed some regulations that are in violation of the laws. I beleive that the Austrians may hvae done the same.

With this said and done, we shoudn't lend even tacit support to these actions by including this regulations in discussions about bridge.

[Walddk]

pbleighton, on Mar 17 2005, 07:15 AM, said:

In the ACBL you can't open at the one level with less than 8, except for psyches.

Peter

No, but psyches are part of bridge as we have stated several times. Camacho said that it was illegal in several if not most bridge federations, and that is not the case in many countries I know of.

Roland

[hrothgar]

pbleighton, on Mar 17 2005, 03:15 PM, said:

In the ACBL you can't open at the one level with less than 8, except for psyches.

Peter

In my experience, the ACBL does not enforce this regulation consistantly.

Tim Goodwin and I attempted to generate a test case a few years. We were playing a light opening system called magic diamond in a real "real" tournament. I systemically opened 1♥ on

♠ 54
♥ QJ96
♦ AT9843
♣ 9

or some such.

The directors refused to rule that such judgement was a violation of the laws.

One of the "fun" things about the ACBL is the discrepancy between the regulations that they "promote" and "suggest"and the ones that actually have any binding force.

[hotShot]

[Chamaco]

hrothgar, on Mar 17 2005, 12:27 PM, said:

This forum is about bridge, not the bastardized game played in Italy.

Hrothgar,

I am really sorry for u about the lack of emoticons when you write such aggressive statements.
I would expect some apologies for these kind of sentences, anyway it's your problem, not mine.

------------------------------------------------------

Having said that, I have stated repeatedly in past threads that I disagree with the limitations for psyching, including the ones I mentioned from the FIGB.

All I am saying is that there are borderline situations where regulations are an issue, and a player is better advised to be informed about the regulations applied in his playing context.

I might be wrong about opening with <8 hcp being illegal in SEVERAL countries, but the very simple fact that some major federations do not allow this makes it self evident the need to get the right information on the local application of the bridge laws.

[hotShot]

Are you sure, that it does not say that opening bids that "by agreement" have less than 8 HCP are not allowed?

This would allow psyches with less than 8 HCP.

[Chamaco]

hotShot, on Mar 17 2005, 02:28 PM, said:

Are you sure, that it does not say that opening bids that "by agreement" have less than 8 HCP are not allowed?

This would allow psyches with less than 8 HCP.

There are specific restrictions/limitations on some specific psyches: e.g. I skip the rest but another psyche that is not allowed is "faking" a strong hand by opening or overcalling a strong 1NT or 2NT.

Italian bridge rules at this site
http://www.federbridge.it/Regolamenti/doc/...einterventi.pdf
Page 1:

Aperture & Interventi Consentiti
APERTURE NATURALI
1 a colore
Punteggio minimo: 8 p.o.
Numero minimo di carte: a) nel nobile 4
B ) nel minore 3
Psichica di lunghezza permessa: SI ....Minimo carte ammesse: 0
Psichica di punteggio permessa: SI ....Minimo punti ammessi: 8
Punti di differenza da quanto promesso: indifferenti
L’apertura da sistema in un seme nobile III è considerata Brown Sticker
Da pre-allertare quando da sistema la forza minima è compresa tra 8/10 p.o.

TRANSLATION


Allowed openings and overcalls
NATURAL OPENINGS
1 OF A SUIT
MIN HCP: 8 hcp
Min no. of cards in the suit opened:
a ) MAJOR SUIT = 4 cards
b ) MINOR SUIT = 3 cards

"Length psyche" allowed: YES ....MIN NO. OF CARDS ALLOWED = 0
"HCP PSYCHE" allowed: YES ......MIN HCP ALLOWED: 8
HCP deviation allowed from promised range= indifferent
Opening in a 3 card major is considered Brown Sticker.
Prealert required when the system-agreed minimum strength is in the 8-10 range.

[hotShot]

Thanks!