[barmar]

 Vampyr, on 2015-July-15, 09:06, said:

Are ACBL points won on BBO counted as regular ACBL points?

For most purposes, yes.

They have no color, so they don't count towards the requirement of certain amounts of each pigment for various "Master" designations. And ACBL now has separate masterpoint leader lists for online and f2f points.

There's also a restriction that you can play in at most 2 ACBL events/hour -- this mostly just affects Leo.

[Jacki]

 Vampyr, on 2015-July-15, 09:06, said:

Are ACBL points won on BBO counted as regular ACBL points?

Yes, in a way. Points won in ACBL games on BBO are equal to one point won anywhere in any game. However, they are 'non-pigmented' points. In order to advance in rank the ACBL requires a certain number of pigmented points;

Black
Silver
Red
Gold/Platinum

Different levels in rank require different numbers of certain colors to reach the next rank. If a player has all the colored points required to reach a level, but needs more total points for that level, then a point won in an ACBL game on BBO is the same as a point won in an ACBL game played anywhere.

[keylime]

Jacki, do they still have the limit in place where for each rank, no more than 1/3rd of the total master points earned online as non-pigmented count?

[steve2005]

I didn't see people already answered re online points

[barmar]

 keylime, on 2015-July-17, 10:53, said:

Jacki, do they still have the limit in place where for each rank, no more than 1/3rd of the total master points earned online as non-pigmented count?

What I think you're talking about is that only 1/3 count towards the requirement for a masterpoint milestone. But they got rid of that (I think when they implemented the 2 tourneys/hour limit). Also, the masterpoint awards for online tourneys are lower than similar-sized club games (and lower still because our games are only 12 boards).

[Vampyr]

And how many masterpoints are awarded for online event? I. Other works what fraction of "normal" masterpoints do they count as

[barmar]

The online awards are 60% of f2f club games.

[Jacki]

 barmar, on 2015-July-18, 11:54, said:

The online awards are 60% of f2f club games.

Barry is correct as regards our 12 board games. However, we do offer 18 board games where the points are awarded at the same level as a club game.

Unfortunately these are not well attended, but they are offered. The entry fee for an 18 board game is $1.50 BB$ and awards masterpoints consisted with a regular club game. I pushed for this, it was implemented, but sadly it did not appeal to our players.

It's still available though. Spread the word, gather your friends and have a 'regular' tournament. There's a bit more thinking time in these 18 board games than there is in a Speedball game. So for the players who like to 1) have time to think and 2) would like a larger masterpoint award, and 3) don't mind spending more than an hour on a game, give these a try.

[Vampyr]

 Jacki, on 2015-July-18, 19:04, said:

Barry is correct as regards our 12 board games. However, we do offer 18 board games where the points are awarded at the same level as a club game.

Unfortunately these are not well attended, but they are offered. The entry fee for an 18 board game is $1.50 BB$ and awards masterpoints consisted with a regular club game. I pushed for this, it was implemented, but sadly it did not appeal to our players.

It's still available though. Spread the word, gather your friends and have a 'regular' tournament. There's a bit more thinking time in these 18 board games than there is in a Speedball game. So for the players who like to 1) have time to think and 2) would like a larger masterpoint award, and 3) don't mind spending more than an hour on a game, give these a try.

Are the ACBL being a little short-sighted? Yes they can sell their product, masterpoints, with vastly fewer overheads on BBO. But some would say that at least one small part of their function is to offer organised bridge in North America. By making the product so much more readily and cheaply available online, it seems like the latter aim is being undermined.

[barmar]

 Jacki, on 2015-July-18, 19:04, said:

Barry is correct as regards our 12 board games. However, we do offer 18 board games where the points are awarded at the same level as a club game.

Unfortunately these are not well attended, but they are offered. The entry fee for an 18 board game is $1.50 BB$ and awards masterpoints consisted with a regular club game. I pushed for this, it was implemented, but sadly it did not appeal to our players.

It's still available though. Spread the word, gather your friends and have a 'regular' tournament. There's a bit more thinking time in these 18 board games than there is in a Speedball game. So for the players who like to 1) have time to think and 2) would like a larger masterpoint award, and 3) don't mind spending more than an hour on a game, give these a try.

And unfortunately, the low attendance means that the masterpoint awards are low. The award for first place in an 18-board game is 0.1 MP per table, up to a maximum of 1.50. Since these 18 board tourneys typically only get 3-5 tables, the most they award is .50, while the 12-board tourneys usually award .90.

And we only offer the 18 board tourneys in robot form, not human tourneys. Because getting 12 people to play in an 18 board tourney seems to be nearly impossible (except for the weekly BBF tourneys).

[barmar]

 Vampyr, on 2015-July-18, 19:27, said:

Are the ACBL being a little short-sighted? Yes they can sell their product, masterpoints, with vastly fewer overheads on BBO. But some would say that at least one small part of their function is to offer organised bridge in North America. By making the product so much more readily and cheaply available online, it seems like the latter aim is being undermined.

I think you have it backwards -- it's BBO who has been pushing ACBL to make online bridge more like f2f bridge. We've had to fight for what we currently have, and there are factions that are continuing to try to reduce online bridge.

For instance, the recent change to MyHands, where you can only see your own robot tourneys, were needed to keep ACBL from killing Instant Robot Duplicates.

[iandayre]

 Vampyr, on 2015-July-15, 09:06, said:

Are ACBL points won on BBO counted as regular ACBL points?

They do not count in any annual point competitions, but they count toward your lifetime total and allow you to advance to LM and beyond.

[barmar]

 iandayre, on 2015-August-03, 19:26, said:

They do not count in any annual point competitions

Except, of course, the Online category in the McKinney competition.

[movingon]

 movingon, on 2015-July-14, 12:17, said:

More concerning is cheating in ACBL tournaments.
I have on file about 15 hands bid and played by one person with two partners that I believe clearly indicate cheating. {removed}

I have only been checking hands for a couple of weeks now, have sent them in and am hoping that I will soon see that this person and his partner are no longer here.

We shall see.

Yesterday I posted an update to my original post (see above) indicating that this person is still playing in ACBL BBO tournaments with the same partners and the hands continue to suggest to me the passing of UI. This post was deleted.

Apparently BBO does not want me to post on this matter. I am once again disappointed.

Noreen Braun (movingon)

[Bbradley62]

Did you mention the name of the player (or his partner)?

[Zelandakh]

 Bbradley62, on 2015-August-16, 12:57, said:

Did you mention the name of the player (or his partner)?

The name was not in the post when I read it.

[diana_eva]

I removed the post because I don't think this thread is supposed to collect reports of ongoing investigations or specific players. It's fine to discuss cheating, solutions but not post accusations or insist that someone is cheating yet they are still playing hence someone isn't doing their job. What if that person was found innocent, or inconclusive, or the investigation isn't over? Either way, abuse isn't going to chime in and give us all an update. We have to trust that they do their job without expecting follow-ups. Forums aren't a place to discuss specific cases IMO.

[movingon]

 Zelandakh, on 2015-August-16, 13:29, said:

The name was not in the post when I read it.

nope no names

[johnu]

I have no idea how many cheating reports are filed each day/week/month, but an acknowledgment email that BBO is doing something would be good customer relations IMHO.

Could be simple form letter responses like:

We looked at your report and have not found anything suspicious
We looked at your report and are conducting further investigations
We looked at your report and suspended XXX for xxx days.
We looked at your report and you are an idiot for reporting these hands (just joking to see if you read my entire post )

[movingon]

After a report of possible cheating, the reporter is informed that a ticket has been opened and the pair is being looked at. When I make such a report, I gather about 5 hands (easily accessible through the My Hands website) and screen shot them to send in. Usually what happens after a week or two is that the pairis not seen further in ACBL games. Sometimes one of the pair is seen to continue to play but with other partners. So I then know that the situation has been handled.

How I spot a suspicious pair usually starts with first hand experience at my table in an ACBL tournament game. If something highly unusual occurs I will note it in the profiles of the opponents and mark them (to follow). If I see a repeat "unusual" bid, lead, defense, etc. I will start to look at their hands on the My Hands website (that is, if and when I have time) and see if there is a pattern.

Let me tell you, throughout the years I have been here and reported players, not ONE pair continued to play after my reports except for the pair (actually threesome) that I have been complaining about here. This indicates to me that BBO ACBL is doing their job.

The first hand experience with the primary pair in this case was a lead against a slam that no one in the entire field found. The leader's right hand opponent opened 1 heart and against a 6nt contract he found the lead of a heart away from the Qxx. This was the only lead to set the contract (and, of course, his partner had the King). I discovered a number of other hands with telling bidding and leads after this incident.

I am still sending in hands and expect the "investigative team" is still looking at the pair.

Noreen (movingon)