[eagles123]

This just came up on a bbo TM
partner is unknown but self rates as expert

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What is best here?

Many thanks

Eagles

[Cyberyeti]

I'd bid 2♠ (fit) and assume it would be read as such

[billw55]

Fit jump is a great description here, but I would never try it with an unknown partner. I would bid 2♣ and hope the message gets across. Second choice 4♥.

[mike777]

I will try 4h as a game try.

[TylerE]

I don't really like 4♥ because of the club situation. 2 (or 3) clubs off the top, plus a pointed suit Ace and we're already in trouble.

[Phil]

No way I bid 2♠ with a random anything.

Bid 2♣ and then go to game unless partner completely stifles you.

[ggwhiz]

I don't think it matters much but 1♠ followed by a cue at the 3 level or a jump in hearts depending on what happens next should do the job. Mind you my partnership overcalls chunky 4-card suits with shape unsuitable for a double but neither one of us is your unknown partner.

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2015-February-26, 15:33, said:

I will try 4h as a game try.

I always thought this was an invite rather than a try in this circumstance:

Try = bid game and try to make it
Invite = bid game and invite partner to make it

Quote

Fit jump is a great description here, but I would never try it with an unknown partner.

I've heard of "new partner asking bids", this is more of a "new partner trial bid", if he doesn't read it, I'll find a different partner next time.

[nige1]

eagles123, on 2015-February-26, 14:06, said:

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This just came up on a bbo TM. partner is unknown but self rates as expert
What is best here?
Many thanks

IMO 4♥ = 10, 2♠ = 9, 2♣ = 8, 3♥ = 7, 4♦ = 6, 2N = 5. Shut out ♦

[kenberg]

I go with 4H. I can see bidding 2C if I envision possibly stopping in 3H (say I bid 2C, opponents stay olut of it, partner bids 2H, I raise to 3H, passable. With some partners a bid of 3C rather than 2C shows a four card limit raise and I could try that. But I am not that pessimistic so I just bid 4H.
.
Without discussion here is how I interpret various calls after (1C)-1H-(Pass)

1S: Not forcing opposite an overcall. And so could not possibly have four hearts.
2S: Natural. Good hand with good spades.,No interest in hearts,
2C: Limit raise or better in hearts or else some super hand with no suitable bid.
2C followed by a jump to 4H. Better than just bidding 4H directly. I have a good hand but not that good on the likely club lead.

Maybe 4H is too high, I am aceless and the club K is of questionable value but I am going for it. I view slam as too unlikely to worry about, so I'll leave that to the experts. Of course partner is an expert, so he will explain to me what I should have done.

I have no quarrel with a fit showing jump except that I don't think that it is the default meaning of the call. I think 2S just shows spades.

When playing pick up and you have a nine card heart fit, the most important thing is to be sure that you play in hearts.

[P_Marlowe]

Keep it simple, just bid 4H, see, if it makes.
The king of clubs is certainly of dubious value, i.e. 4H
could be too high, but so what.

Even in a regular partnership, 2S beging fit jump, I am not sure,
I would use 2S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

3nt. Self rated experts can't be trusted to play the hand. We probably get a spade or club lead.

[Trump Echo]

I'd go with 4♥

[fourdad]

right and wrong here cannot be determined if you had no partnership agreement as to the range of the 1♥ overcall.

[keithhus]

As a beginner, I would bid 4H, as you might expect. But with reference to a previous topic - I.e. LoTT, would 3H be a sensible invitation? Thanks

[helene_t]

Yes but 3♥ is not commonly used as invitational. It is preemptive. With a hand this strong you have to bid 2♣ or maybe 3♣ or 1♠ if you want to show inviational strength.

[akwoo]

I would bid 1♠.

Yes, it's non-forcing, but a pass would be on something like ♠xx ♥AKxxx ♦xxx ♣xxx where no game is on. It's true a heart partial is better than a spade partial, but that's not such a big deal at IMPs.

I would not bid 2♠. I am as likely to play that as a weak jump shift as a fit jump.

Most people play 3♥ in this situation as a WEAK LoTT bid - showing 4 hearts and less than 10 (or even less than 7) hcp.

I wouldn't object to 2♣, but partner doesn't really know how to evaluate their hand opposite a generic invitation here. ♠Ax ♥AJxxx ♦xxxx ♣xx is as good as ♠xx ♥AKxxx ♦QJxx ♣Qx

[rmnka447]

4 ♥ for me, also.

You can never know exactly what's right on this hand, so I don't think starting with a cue gains much. The down side to a cue is that it might give the opponents a chance to speak at a lower level, find a fit and compete. Give partner as little as xxx AKxxx xxx Qx and 4 ♥ may make.

So there's nothing wrong with making an aggressive game bid with some values here.

Tactically, it's not a bad idea to do so occasionally anyhow. I remember a KO quite a few years ago where holding a similar hand game was bid and doubled. It made for a swing. Then on the following hand, the bidding was the same except the 4 ♥ bid was a typical preemptive raise. The opposition, having been burned on the previous hand, was unsure of what was held and didn't find a double. However, a double was needed to salvage a near push as their game made.

[iandayre]

4H. Just can't see not giving game a shot. And for any considering 2S - if 1S is constructive, not forcing, then 2S is the forcing S call. A fit jump would be right if you were a passed hand.

[keithhus]

helene_t, on 2015-February-27, 12:43, said:

Yes but 3♥ is not commonly used as invitational. It is preemptive. With a hand this strong you have to bid 2♣ or maybe 3♣ or 1♠ if you want to show inviational strength.

Helene, I suppose your "preemptive " comment is the same as Akoo's re LoTT - I.e 3H would indicate less than 10pts. I am getting a little confused, as my teaching re responses to over calls
was : 3 card support
8-11 Increase bid by 1
12-15. Increase bid by 2
16. Increase by 3
Hence, 3H would not be weak.
What am I not understanding?