[TMorris]

At IMPs all vulnerable it goes

2♦ (as above 5-10, 5/4 in the majors) P P

and you have

Jx
x
AKJxx
AKxxx

What is your bid?

[hrothgar]

TMorris, on 2014-December-12, 15:34, said:

At IMPs all vulnerable it goes

2♦ (as above 5-10, 5/4 in the majors) P P

and you have

Jx
x
AKJxx
AKxxx

What is your bid?

Partner couldn't overcall, so trying for 3N seems dicey.

I am going to double for penalty and take a (near) sure plus
If LHO runs, partner should be able to hit him in either major.

[mgoetze]

hrothgar, on 2014-December-12, 16:30, said:

Partner couldn't overcall, so trying for 3N seems dicey.

I am going to double for penalty and take a (near) sure plus
If LHO runs, partner should be able to hit him in either major.

Will he be able to hit for 500, though? Because I have a pretty sure 200 or more by passing.

Anyway, it would help to know what agreements, if any, we had about partner's potential immediate actions.

[TMorris]

We rarely come across this convention so have no specific agreements. In part I am asking what agreements should be sensible in this situation. Our general rule is that low level doubles are for take out so it is likely that a double is take out here. Should it be in these rather unusual circumstances?

Thanks

TMorris

[Cthulhu D]

TMorris, on 2014-December-13, 06:14, said:

We rarely come across this convention so have no specific agreements. In part I am asking what agreements should be sensible in this situation. Our general rule is that low level doubles are for take out so it is likely that a double is take out here. Should it be in these rather unusual circumstances?

Thanks

TMorris

When they have made an artificial opener with a suit that they don't have, it's not optimal to play double as takeout. If they have opened a multi 2D and you have a takeout of hearts, pass and come back in when someone has bid hearts. Instead, double is values, like what you'd have if you overcalled 2NT. Secondly, against assumed fit preempts you really want to play penalty doubles. Looking for 4-4 fits is bad given the known bad trump splits, so just overcall naturally with 5 card suits. With the combination. We have a few meta agreements that cover this:

a) When they have opener a suit they don't have, a double of the artificial bid is just values - instead of over-calling 2NT start with double and that suggests a penalty. If you want to make a light takeout bid pass and come back in. Once a 'strong NT' double has been made, subsequent doubles are penalty orientated.
B) Takeout doubles are less valuable against assumed fit pre-empts because playing in a suit that breaks 4-4-4-1 is rarely fun. You need to be finding 5 card major suits at a minimum.
C) If they are in a misfit and everyone knows it, you want to crush them. Doubles are now penalties.

So when I play an artificial opener I haven't encountered before, partner and my generic defence is:

Quote

First double = strength
Second double = takeout
Third double and 'misfit doubles' after any artificial bid is passed = blood

This is fairly common in Australia for dealing with the latest wacky gadget (Consider how this works against multi - doubling the 2D is points, doubling the pass/correct bid is takeout, and subsequent doubles are 'we've got 'em' If they pass 2D, again, wield the axe). Applying that here, we want to X for penalties, as we KNOW they are in a giant misfit, partner has both majors and we have both minors (if he had minors he could have bid 2N, and if RHO had even 1 major he would have corrected, so we should put the axe on the table with alacrity and lead trumps. Where are they going to go?

Edit: That said, in a US context (where it is always 5/4), penalty doubling is somewhat less likely to be correct in general, but in this situation surely RHO is even more likely to correct as partner is even less likely to have 3 diamonds than he is playing 4/4, so this hand commands a penalty double.

[lowerline]

TMorris, on 2014-December-12, 15:34, said:

At IMPs all vulnerable it goes

2♦ (as above 5-10, 5/4 in the majors) P P

and you have

Jx
x
AKJxx
AKxxx

What is your bid?

Suggested defence:

• dbl = 13-15 balanced or any hand too strong to overcall (18+), partner can double their 2M for penalty
• 2♥ = minor 2suiter with better/longer clubs
• 2♠ = minor 2suiter with better/longer diamonds
• 2nt = natural (16-18), partner can bid 3m to play or 3M with shortness and both minors
• 3x = natural (good suit)

Your example is special because responder has passed. He has at least 5 diamonds and probably no 3crd suit in a major. That means partner probably has 8 cards in the majors. Passing can only be wrong when you have 3nt. But vulnerable at imps I don't want to take that risk and would bid 2nt.

S.

[hrothgar]

lowerline, on 2014-December-15, 09:57, said:

Your example is special because responder has passed. He has at least 5 diamonds and probably no 3crd suit in a major. That means partner probably has 8 cards in the majors. Passing can only be wrong when you have 3nt. But vulnerable at imps I don't want to take that risk and would bid 2nt.

If we were red and they were white, I might see the merit a 2NT here.

However, here you're both red
The opponent's have a dreadful misfit
You have a trump stack sitting over declarer
I think that a penalty double is clear cut

You really need to be in a position to extract penalties when the opponents are using assumed fit methods.
Conversely, many of my best results playing these methods occur when the opponent's decided that they need to enter the auction with the wrong hands.

[TMorris]

Thanks for all the comments. As it happened my partner passed it out. No doubt she would have liked to double for penalties but without an agreement this was not realistic. Dummy was not quite as most have expected in that he had a 4441 4 count.