[MickyB]

Aq9xx kq9 qt xxx

1h:2c
2s:3s
3n:4s
AP

2c = nat/bal GF
2s doesn't show extras
3n non-serious

2C is systemic (avoiding auctions such as 1h:1s, 3h:??). Are you happy with your subsequent bidding?

[wanoff]

If the system doesn't allow me to bid 1s because of a problem of showing Hs in some auctions, then this artificial route ought to allow that.
So maybe 4♥ over 3NT would show this type of hand.

Disclaimer. I've never played 2/1 or 5cdM for that matter, but considering it.
I can't think you'd want to splinter in partners major so what would 4h over 2s mean ?

[whereagles]

Maybe 4♥ over 3NT would be better. Provided partner understands it, that is.

[kenrexford]

I love the complete auction. If the result is poor because slam makes and was percentage, then I question whether Opener was truly non-serious. I don't want to tell partner and the opponents useless information just for fun. Thus, I am pleased to not reveal the heart bonus if slam must be off the table anyway.

[wanoff]

kenrexford, on 2014-November-09, 07:02, said:

I love the complete auction. If the result is poor because slam makes and was percentage, then I question whether Opener was truly non-serious.

I'm not absolutely sure what 'non-serious' means (in Acol we play it as a suggestion to play) but if it means - minimum but not awful.........might it not be something like
Kxxx A10xxxx x Ax or if that's not allowed for 2s then Kxxx AJxxx x Axx ?

[kenrexford]

wanoff, on 2014-November-09, 07:34, said:

I'm not absolutely sure what 'non-serious' means (in Acol we play it as a suggestion to play) but if it means - minimum but not awful.........might it not be something like
Kxxx A10xxxx x Ax or if that's not allowed for 2s then Kxxx AJxxx x Axx ?

I can't imagine how a hand with three key cards and stiff in the unbid suit is nonserious. If the methods call this nonserious, then Responder has to bid 4H. But, these hands are serious for me.

[Fluffy]

I can't understand how a hand with 4 keycards can sing off so quickly, Doesn't 4♥ show a slam try without minor control? what is the problem?

[awm]

I like 4♥ over 3nt. For me, the control-rich 11-counts are non-serious. My view is that a serious slam try is basically a slam FORCE if we have the necessary controls. So obviously a hand with min values and lots of controls must not make a serious try!

[broze]

Agree with Fluffy. I would just be bidding 4♥ over 3N without thinking too hard about it. Doesn't this describe my hand perfectly?

[MickyB]

What about this auction?

1h:2c
2s:3h
3s:3n (3s cue, 3n friv)
4h:4s

[kenrexford]

MickyB, on 2014-November-09, 15:48, said:

What about this auction?

1h:2c
2s:3h
3s:3n (3s cue, 3n friv)
4h:4s

4S is probably not to play. Maybe Kickback, maybe cue.

[MickyB]

kenrexford, on 2014-November-09, 20:40, said:

4S is probably not to play. Maybe Kickback, maybe cue.

After a friv try and a sign-off? How would this differ from making a serious try?

[MickyB]

awm, on 2014-November-09, 10:53, said:

I like 4♥ over 3nt. For me, the control-rich 11-counts are non-serious. My view is that a serious slam try is basically a slam FORCE if we have the necessary controls. So obviously a hand with min values and lots of controls must not make a serious try!

Ok, that's basically my view. However - presumably 4H is similarly a force to the five-level if partner has the "ace plus singleton" hand, or worse still, Ax Kx in the minors?

[Fluffy]

Yes it is, lets hope to survive if he has Ax Kx

[kenrexford]

MickyB, on 2014-November-10, 01:10, said:

After a friv try and a sign-off? How would this differ from making a serious try?

3NT will have turned out to have been a tactical move designed to get under 4C. What would 5C, instead, be? Not interested, but I want to play 5C?

[MickyB]

kenrexford, on 2014-November-10, 06:14, said:

3NT will have turned out to have been a tactical move designed to get under 4C. What would 5C, instead, be? Not interested, but I want to play 5C?

"Get under 4C"? How's that better than cueing 4D?

I wasn't suggesting it as a sign-off, I was suggesting it as a NF try showing the double fit. A little esoteric I'll admit, but it still appears to me to be more logical than any other meaning for the auction!

[MickyB]

Partner held KJxx Jxxxx AKx x. I bid 4H over 3N at the table, 5S went one off on the defence club to the ace, ace of hearts cashed, heart ruff. I assume that the stiff heart would have been led vs 4S for the same one off! 4H makes.

[wanoff]

MickyB, on 2014-November-10, 11:54, said:

Partner held KJxx Jxxxx AKx x. I bid 4H over 3N at the table, 5S went one off on the defence club to the ace, ace of hearts cashed, heart ruff. I assume that the stiff heart would have been led vs 4S for the same one off! 4H makes.

In that case 4s makes from your side - so is that simply bad luck or was it the system.
I can see that 1h-1s-3h is avoided by an artificial 2c, but how likely was that sequence holding ♥KQx.
btw well done yesterday.

[kenrexford]

MickyB, on 2014-November-10, 11:53, said:

"Get under 4C"? How's that better than cueing 4D?

I wasn't suggesting it as a sign-off, I was suggesting it as a NF try showing the double fit. A little esoteric I'll admit, but it still appears to me to be more logical than any other meaning for the auction!

Responder is allowed to actually have clubs. Bidding 3NT is a good way to find out if Opener has a club card, which might be important for a grand.

[MickyB]

kenrexford, on 2014-November-10, 16:43, said:

Responder is allowed to actually have clubs. Bidding 3NT is a good way to find out if Opener has a club card, which might be important for a grand.

...if partner has a serious try. Seems a pretty terrible way to find out anything if he doesn't, which is likely if you're considering grand already at this point.