[Jinksy]

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(ETA) rats, I forgot to include vulnerability - it's unfavourable

a) Playing a standard system (SAYC for argument's sake), do you open this 1♠, 2♠ or pass?

b) Playing Fantunes, do you open 2♠ or pass?

To give some context to the latter, our Fantunes 2-bid is '10-13 points after allowing for distribution, with 5+ cards in the suit, but promising a singleton outside if only 5'. So I find a better way to think about it is maybe 'about a point less than a minimum SAYC distribution-based opening bid'. Obviously NV you might take some liberties, but 1st in, vul, we try to keep them constructive.

Somehow this hand feels on the cusp of both a Fantunes and weak 2.

[whereagles]

Any reason why I should evade the system? Seems like normal 2♠ in normal and fantunes...

[Jinksy]

For me it's both. At the table, opening 2S got a disastrous result, and while I realise that's mainly bad luck, I think it's such a poor 10 count that conceivably passing it (playing Fantunes) could be the winning action at these colours. I don't normally loser count, but this is one of the only Fantunes 2-bids I can remember that had 8, and the KQH and JC look ridiculously overrated on Milton-Work. P will be punting game on most reasonably crisp 10 counts with 4♠s - he's also likely to compete heavily over Hs with reasonable ♠s, which might work badly.

I'm not talking myself into not bidding it, but was uncertain enough to bring it here.

[Cyberyeti]

For me we would open 1♠ playing what I play (Acol rather than SAYC), 2♠ in Fantunes, if you pass in Fantunes, partner will have Q9xx, J10xx, AKxx, x.

[Jinksy]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-October-23, 03:52, said:

For me we would open 1♠ playing what I play (Acol rather than SAYC), 2♠ in Fantunes, if you pass in Fantunes, partner will have Q9xx, J10xx, AKxx, x.

Maybe, but if P has that hand, the opps are likely to bid Cs, giving P a chance to X or you a chance to overcall. They'll prob find a sac, but they might have done that anyway.

[Jinksy]

Just noticed the vul came out wrong in the OP. It's unfavourable - any other colours I'd think it clear cut.

[Cyberyeti]

Jinksy, on 2014-October-23, 04:36, said:

Maybe, but if P has that hand, the opps are likely to bid Cs, giving P a chance to X or you a chance to overcall. They'll prob find a sac, but they might have done that anyway.

Fine if anybody bids at all, 4x10 not out of the question here.

[billw55]

IMO there is no such thing as an in-between. If suit quality and pattern are appropriate for 2♠, then always open either 2♠ or 1♠, depending on overall strength, but never pass. It's a bidders game, if you have a bid, then bid.

edit: just now seeing that it is unfavorable. Now the suit is close to not good enough. But I still bid 2♠. Never played Fantunes, but given your description the hand seems better suited to 1♠.

edit again: I misread that entirely, lol. 2♠ always.

[Jinksy]

In Fantunes 1♠ would show a much stronger hand. The choices are 2♠ or pass (or 3♠, I suppose).

[Jinksy]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-October-23, 06:17, said:

Fine if anybody bids at all, 4x10 not out of the question here.

Sure, but I'm just saying it reduces the weight of that hand as evidence for opening 2♠.

[billw55]

lol at me. Make it 2♠ always. Morings are rough on me, have pity

[Vampyr]

Is everyone who has replied so far playing a Multi and constructive opening two-bids?

[chasetb]

Vampyr, I can't play Multi (stupid Mid-Chart and no partners who are willing to play MC), and I think it's clearly a 2♠ in both systems. It has 3/top 5 in Spades, a maximum in point count, and not really too much defense.

[jdeegan]

This is first seat red vs white? Seems like a normal 2♠ opener in all but 4th seat playing SAYC or 2/1.

[Vampyr]

chasetb, on 2014-October-26, 02:16, said:

I think it's clearly a 2♠ in both systems.

You may be right. In Acol-style systems, it is not.

[nige1]

Jinksy, on 2014-October-23, 00:59, said:

unfavourable
a) Playing a standard system (SAYC for argument's sake), do you open this 1♠, 2♠ or pass?
b) Playing Fantunes, do you open 2♠ or pass?
To give some context to the latter, our Fantunes 2-bid is '10-13 points after allowing for distribution, with 5+ cards in the suit, but promising a singleton outside if only 5'. So I find a better way to think about it is maybe 'about a point less than a minimum SAYC distribution-based opening bid'. Obviously NV you might take some liberties, but 1st in, vul, we try to keep them constructive. Somehow this hand feels on the cusp of both a Fantunes and weak 2.

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IMO 2♠ is OK, playing either system.