BBO Discussion Forums: Dummy has 12 cards: no it hasn't! - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Dummy has 12 cards: no it hasn't!

#1 User is offline   weejonnie 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 801
  • Joined: 2012-April-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North-east England
  • Interests:Bridge Laws, croquet

Posted 2014-October-02, 05:26

At the club on a specific hand, one defender (having bid clubs) led the K. Dummy went down with three small clubs (J87). His partner overtook (holding AQ) to return his singleton club to get a ruff (he said) and declarer followed with a small spade.

At this point dummy noticed that a card (the A) hadn't been displayed correctly, being hidden behind the Jack, and then displayed the card.

As far as I can see, the defender couldn't change the card played and all I could do was to award an adjusted score if required, to restore equity.

Are there general guidelines for this somewhere? Having looked up the laws of missing card and dummy's duties at the start of a hand, there seems to be nothing on 'card faced incorrectly by dummy'

(Looking at 41D and 42, it would appear that dummy has lost his rights under 42A1b by calling attention to the irregularity during play - assuming that the hidden card is an irregularity)

(Obiter Dictum - is there any way of viewing earlier articles on these forums? It seems as if only a few of the more recent are displayed. Am I missing something?)
No matter how well you know the laws, there is always something that you'll forget. That is why we have a book.
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
0

#2 User is offline   RMB1 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,841
  • Joined: 2007-January-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Exeter, UK
  • Interests:EBU/EBL TD
    Bridge, Cinema, Theatre, Food,
    [Walking - not so much]

Posted 2014-October-02, 06:16

View Postweejonnie, on 2014-October-02, 05:26, said:

Are there general guidelines for this somewhere? Having looked up the laws of missing card and dummy's duties at the start of a hand, there seems to be nothing on 'card faced incorrectly by dummy'

The EBU White Book has this:

8.41.4 Dummy not displayed properly
If dummy is displayed incorrectly so that all the cards are not visible or a card is in the wrong suit, this is an irregularity. If the defenders are damaged by not seeing dummy’s cards when dummy is displayed incorrectly (according to Law 41D) they are entitled to redress – the defenders are not responsible for ensuring that all 13 cards are displayed. There is no penalty defined in Law 41D so the TD should award an adjusted score, according to Law 12A1.
Robin

"Robin Barker is a mathematician. ... All highly skilled in their respective fields and clearly accomplished bridge players."
0

#3 User is offline   VixTD 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,052
  • Joined: 2009-September-09

Posted 2014-October-02, 06:43

View Postweejonnie, on 2014-October-02, 05:26, said:

Are there general guidelines for this somewhere? Having looked up the laws of missing card and dummy's duties at the start of a hand, there seems to be nothing on 'card faced incorrectly by dummy'

Yes, in the EBU White Book 8.41.4:

Quote

Dummy not displayed properly
If dummy is displayed incorrectly so that all the cards are not visible or a card is in the wrong suit, this is an irregularity. If the defenders are damaged by not seeing dummy’s cards when dummy is displayed incorrectly (according to Law 41D) they are entitled to redress – the defenders are not responsible for ensuring that all 13 cards are displayed. There is no penalty defined in Law 41D so the TD should award an adjusted score, according to Law 12A1.


View Postweejonnie, on 2014-October-02, 05:26, said:

(Looking at 41D and 42, it would appear that dummy has lost his rights under 42A1b by calling attention to the irregularity during play - assuming that the hidden card is an irregularity)

The law doesn't make a specific exception for drawing attention to irregularities of dummy's own making, but law 75B says on the subject of mistaken explanations:

Quote

If North subsequently becomes aware of his mistake, he must immediately notify the Director.

I think it's generally accepted that this applies to dummy as well.
0

#4 User is offline   weejonnie 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 801
  • Joined: 2012-April-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North-east England
  • Interests:Bridge Laws, croquet

Posted 2014-October-02, 07:04

View PostVixTD, on 2014-October-02, 06:43, said:

Yes, in the EBU White Book 8.41.4:



The law doesn't make a specific exception for drawing attention to irregularities of dummy's own making, but law 75B says on the subject of mistaken explanations:

I think it's generally accepted that this applies to dummy as well.


Thanks. (Must have missed the White book explanation - I did look at it!)
No matter how well you know the laws, there is always something that you'll forget. That is why we have a book.
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
0

#5 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,695
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2014-October-02, 07:07

View Postweejonnie, on 2014-October-02, 05:26, said:

(Obiter Dictum - is there any way of viewing earlier articles on these forums? It seems as if only a few of the more recent are displayed. Am I missing something?)

I think so. Near the bottom of the forum page (e.g. "Laws and Rulings") there's a dark bar, in the middle of which is "Click Here to Show Filter Options". One of the options is how far back to go in displaying threads. The default is 30 days.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users