[dustinst22]

IN an auction such as

P (3♣) 3♥ (4♣) 4♦

How do you play 4♦?

Cue bid and good hand for ♥?

[the_clown]

Sometimes I like to bid the suit I actually hold.

[ArtK78]

Diamonds?

If I was looking for slam in hearts I could bid 5♣, 4NT or 5♥, depending on the makeup of my hand. I suppose there is some merit to using 4♦ as a slam try in hearts, but is that really the best treatment when you have had no opportunity to exchange any information?

I might be looking for slam in hearts by bidding 4♦ if I have diamonds and hearts. But, at least for the present, all that my 4♦ bid shows is diamonds. If I am moving towards slam in hearts, I will have to show that in my next bid.

[dustinst22]

ArtK78, on 2013-March-15, 12:37, said:

I suppose there is some merit to using 4♦ as a slam try in hearts, but is that really the best treatment when you have had no opportunity to exchange any information?

I'm not sure, that's why I posted this. It's a question I've gotten different answers/opinions on this type of situation, but you guys seem pretty confident in your answers.



Thinking this out logically, if you have a single-suited diamond hand, you would have probably preempted/opened.

If you have a 2-suiter, the 2nd suit has to be either hearts or spades......with the Diamond/spade suit couldn't you just have doubled?

Willing to free-bid diamonds at the 4 level in a new suit after passing, what kind of hand can you possibly have other than some kind of support for hearts?

A club bid should imply first round control I'd think, no?

I'm just spit balling here.

[dustinst22]

the_clown, on 2013-March-15, 12:36, said:

Sometimes I like to bid the suit I actually hold.

Thanks for the useless post. At least your ID suits the tone of your post.

[PhilKing]

I suspect it is optimal to play it as Last Train for hearts (no promise of control), but I would not really want to play it that way unless I could identify other sequences where the same principle could be utilised.

It does put more strain on double, since I will have to do that on some good diamond hands.

[helene_t]

Strain before level. I might like to play it as spades .

[ArtK78]

dustinst22, on 2013-March-15, 12:41, said:

I'm not sure, that's why I posted this. It's a question I've gotten different answers/opinions on this type of situation, but you guys seem pretty confident in your answers.



Thinking this out logically, if you have a single-suited diamond hand, you would have probably preempted/opened.

If you have a 2-suiter, the 2nd suit has to be either hearts or spades......with the Diamond/spade suit couldn't you just have doubled?

Willing to free-bid diamonds at the 4 level in a new suit after passing, what kind of hand can you possibly have other than some kind of support for hearts?

A club bid should imply first round control I'd think, no?

I'm just spit balling here.

I have to admit that I did not notice that I was a passed hand. While that may eliminate many of the single-suited diamond hands that I might hold, it does not eliminate all of the hands in which I have diamonds (in particular, hands with diamonds and a major which might even be hearts). And it does eliminate a lot of the hands where the sole purpose of my 4♦ call is that I have a slam try in hearts over a nonforcing 3♥ overcall.

As for double, at this level I would play it for penalties and not as responsive. A heart misfit with a trick or two is sufficient to double 4♣.

Helene's suggestion that 4♦ suggests spades is interesting. It probably makes more sense than diamonds, but, without any prior discussion, I doubt that I would spring this one on partner.

[jogs]

dustinst22, on 2013-March-15, 12:32, said:

IN an auction such as

P (3♣) 3♥ (4♣)
4♦

How do you play 4♦?

Cue bid and good hand for ♥?

Passed hand, no way this hand should be suggesting diamonds or looking for slam.
The 3♥ bidder will be on lead if they go to 5♣.
4♦ is heart support. Suggesting a diamond against clubs.

[aguahombre]

jogs, on 2013-March-15, 18:30, said:

Passed hand, no way this hand should be suggesting diamonds or looking for slam.
The 3♥ bidder will be on lead if they go to 5♣.
4♦ is heart support. Suggesting a diamond against clubs.

I guess it depends on what "suggesting diamonds" means. Could it be used to help partner decide whether to continue on in competition over 5C? I think lead directing might be less useful than fit-showing, but maybe not.

[FrancesHinden]

Of course you can have a slam on, it's not 'no way' at all.
It depends a bit on the vulnerability and whether you play weak 2s in diamonds, but something like

Qx
Kxx
KQ10xx
xxx

would be about right (i.e. hearts and diamonds)
You might have a 4th heart.

[Free]

It's a so called "Fit Non Jump": shows fit and some values in ♦ (suggests a ♦ lead).

[ArtK78]

Free, on 2013-March-17, 15:22, said:

It's a so called "Fit Non Jump": shows fit and some values in ♦ (suggests a ♦ lead).

Sure, if you play that. I never met anyone who did.

[sfi]

ArtK78, on 2013-March-17, 19:59, said:

Sure, if you play that. I never met anyone who did.

It's actually a pretty common agreement by a passed hand in this sort of an auction. The idea is that you are unlikely to have a hand good enough to bid here without a heart fit.

[the hog]

ArtK78, on 2013-March-17, 19:59, said:

Sure, if you play that. I never met anyone who did.

Hello Art. Pleased to meet you.

[Free]

ArtK78, on 2013-March-17, 19:59, said:

Sure, if you play that. I never met anyone who did.

I do when you're a passed hand, because the natural meaning is quite impossible so you might as well suggest a lead to partner while showing fit, in case opps sacrifice.

[jogs]

aguahombre, on 2013-March-16, 20:52, said:

I guess it depends on what "suggesting diamonds" means. Could it be used to help partner decide whether to continue on in competition over 5C? I think lead directing might be less useful than fit-showing, but maybe not.

Sorry, lost a word. Meant "suggesting a diamond lead". This is from the Robson/Segel book on partnership bridge.