[1eyedjack]

Got my daughter a new laptop for Christmas.

Well, so much for Windows 8. Anyone know when Windows 9 is coming out?

[Antrax]

You can install a $5 application that makes the start button bring up the start menu, forget Metro exists and then it's like you have Windows 7 installed.

[1eyedjack]

Yup, tried that. Actually used a freebie called Pokki which seemed to come recommended. Supposedly boots up to desktop view. Only it doesn't. May try something else.
Also you have to reconfigure all your default applications so that it doesn't then swich back to Metro view when you launch an app by opening a file.

[billw55]

A while ago there was a rumor about google developing a full operating system. Any news on that?

[PhilKing]

billw55, on 2012-December-27, 07:08, said:

A while ago there was a rumor about google developing a full operating system. Any news on that?

Have you tried googling it?

[billw55]

PhilKing, on 2012-December-27, 07:34, said:

Have you tried googling it?

I have. It may astonish you, but sometimes real live people know things that are not available / difficult to find on the internet.

[Aberlour10]

1eyedjack, on 2012-December-27, 02:14, said:

Got my daughter a new laptop for Christmas.

Well, so much for Windows 8. Anyone know when Windows 9 is coming out?

Dont' know, but you will hate it probably more than the 8. Desktop PC, mouse etc, all these are antient instruments, not worth to loose the time for developing...touch-me-mania must go on.

[blackshoe]

Snow Lion works fine for me.

[JLOGIC]

Windows 8 is excellent on the convertible touch/laptop computers. I also think these are superior to having either a laptop or a tablet, and I think windows recognized that. It is amazing how much more often I use touch than a mouse and keyboard when I have the option of both, touch is more natural and in most cases more efficient.

[FM75]

billw55, on 2012-December-27, 07:08, said:

A while ago there was a rumor about google developing a full operating system. Any news on that?

They did. But it runs on their Chrome Books. No native apps. Only cloud based. That could be good or bad, depending on what you need. Boots lightning fast.

I think in their current version, they have some local storage implemented so you can work "on a clear day" (when you aren't on the internet).

There are a ton of really fine things that work on all devices from chrome books to windows (pick a version), to Mac, to tablets, to phones.

I would not be happy doing word processing, spreadsheets, or even long emails on a tablet. (Even this post would be annoying to me, without a keyboard.)

[blackshoe]

That's why I have a keyboard for my iPad, although I confess I don't use it much.

[mgoetze]

I am much looking forward to Debian 8.0, which I expect to be released sometime in 2015.

[mycroft]

I am looking forward to Debian 12.0 which I expect to be released sometime in 2038 more, myself :-)

But on topic (as hard as it is for me to do that, as I Don't Do Windows), for those who are "fullscreen mavens" - may be swapping between windows, but they're all full screen - this works well (as does Ubuntu Unity, and Mac whatever). For those that aren't (and my virtual desktop is as cluttered as my real one), it's a massive PITA.
Also, if you're running 3200x1200, or 2x2540x1440, that's an awful lot of space for one window. But Windows 8 is clearly not designed for that, it's designed for the 7-to-12-inch machines that everybody is going to be using soon, if they aren't already, and Windows Phones at the 5.5 inch point. And it's pretty much perfect for that (once you learn how to use it, but you can say that about any tablet/smartphone OS).

Heh, I'm old enough, and techie enough, to remember the same argument from XP, with everything having to go through the "Start" button instead of the old way (but you could do it the old way, too). We learned (it took me 12 years, but I've basically converted to the XP style of things - in xfce, but still).

[barmar]

David Pogue has an article in this month's Scientific American on why touch is right for tablets, but wrong for desktops.

http://www.scientifi...l-not-take-over

[1eyedjack]

As long as touch is an add-on facility, and the existing facilities to use keyboard and pointer remain, it is difficult to argue that the addition of touch is a retrograde step. The very worst accusation that can be levelled at it is that the benefits of the touch facility (for desktops) are overhyped. But that is a far cry from claiming that they have net negative benefit.

And while I might agree with Pogue that they are overhyped, there will without doubt be particular instances when, given the facility, I would rather touch the screen than use an alternative, even in a desktop context.

But criticism of providing a touch-sensitive input alternative is not quite the same thing as criticism of Windows 8. For that you have to assume that Windows 8 is the best possible implementation of touch technology (even allowing for legacy compatibility requirements). I like the touch technology but I do not like Windows 8.

One of my criticisms is the amount of googling that I have to do in order to work out how to do some of the most basic tasks if they are not absolutely "in yer face". OK, there has to be a bit of a learning curve, and most of the stuff you only have to google once. But a more intuitive interface that requires less googling would, all other factors being equal, be a positive feature.

Another criticism that I have is Microsoft's continued insistence that it knows best how you wish to work. It has ever suffered from this arrogance. The first thing that you do when loading (eg) MS Office is to disable all of the autocorrect features. Start typing a letter and you get some message popup saying words to the effect "It appears that you are writing a letter. Would you like us to reformat the entire document so that it looks like a letter that Bill Gates would have written?" Er, no, thanks, I know how to format my letters and it is not the way that you would do it. That attitude seems to have permeated all of Microsoft's thinking, including the development of Windows 8. I accept that it has to come out of the box with default settings. The problem with all Microsoft products historically, W8 being no exception, is the effort to which you have to go in order to customise it to the way that YOU want to work. Simply getting it to boot to desktop view by default is not a 5-second task.

Take something as simple as the Internet Explorer web browser that comes with Windows 8. Well, it comes with 2 of them. The Metro mode one, which seems to be a differnet app from the desktop one, comes with no (or minimal?) add-ons, and as far as I can tell, no (easy) facility to add any. No doubt that makes it more secure, but it also cuts down on functionality. Also, once you have launched it there is no way to close it short of rebooting. Sure, you can make it appear to disappear from the screen, but it is still left running in the background. Change your home page and favourites in the desktop version of IE and you would have every riight (in my opinion) to expect them to change automatically in the Metro version. Do they? Do they heck.

So one of the first things that you find yourself doing after taking it out of the box and changing all the defaults is to download all the third party apps which do a better job that MS in their niche area. Again, this is nothing new for MS. Remember the days when you would instal Quarterdeck's QEMM memory management software? So here we supplant IE with Chrome (or some alternative, but Chrome works for me) which even in Metro mode allows you to actually close the app.

As mentioned in the first response to this thread, in desktop mode they have taken away the "Start" button in desktop mode, because in their supreme arrogance they have decided that us plebs need to be educated into not using it, and the best way to educate them into not using it is to deny them access to it. The reality is that the start button takes up virtually no space on the screen, and what happens? A load of third parties promptly put it back for you again. Just individual examples, and I could go on. But they are examples of a disease that permeates the whole thing.

[gwnn]

I thought this was a cute counter (no idea how close it is to reality).

[billw55]

Looks like a Microsoft commercial to me.

[gwnn]

Yes it is and that might make it a candidate for deletion, but I think there have been other cases when commercials were posted because they were considered funny.

[Winstonm]

The reason I do not have a smart phone or laptop is due to the difficulties I have using touchscreen technology. My finger are large and I do not possess terrific small muscle dexterity so I find I make many more errors when trying to use that mode. I am sure this is not true of the general population, though, so I cannot expect to have my inabilities catered to, unfortunately for me.

[Fluffy]

I think 8 is great because its the only one that supports IE 9+, wich are the only ones that support CSS3 (about time)