BBO Discussion Forums: Double Dummy Play Problem - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Double Dummy Play Problem

#1 User is offline   mgoetze 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,942
  • Joined: 2005-January-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cologne, Germany
  • Interests:Sleeping, Eating

Posted 2012-October-21, 19:00

This is a hand from the EBU Autumn Congress teams final. I led a rather mundane heart against 3NT, the opponents made 12 tricks and I assumed at the time I had blown a trick (which was fine, it was IMPs). Then on the hand records I saw that actually 12 tricks are cold. It took 6 of us about 10 minutes to figure out how to make 6NT on a club lead, see how long it takes you:


"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
0

#2 User is offline   bigbenvic 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 317
  • Joined: 2011-October-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 2012-October-21, 19:13

I'm not great at these, but my first thought was to win the A and lead the J as I don't have entries to finesse twice.

that doesn't work as east isn't squeezed.

What happens if you win play 4 rounds of clubs, hook a D, cash A and exit a low heart? East has to win the K, give you an entry to the Spade K , or a free finesse in D or an entry to dummy via a heart.
1

#3 User is offline   lamford 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,473
  • Joined: 2007-October-15

Posted 2012-October-21, 19:23

The hand is interesting as a single-dummy problem too. Say matchpoints in 3NT after East, who made a weak jump overcall in hearts, leads a spade or a club.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
0

#4 User is offline   lamford 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,473
  • Joined: 2007-October-15

Posted 2012-October-21, 19:34

View Postbigbenvic, on 2012-October-21, 19:13, said:

I'm not great at these, but my first thought was to win the A and lead the J as I don't have entries to finesse twice.

that doesn't work as east isn't squeezed.

What happens if you win play 4 rounds of clubs, hook a D, cash A and exit a low heart? East has to win the K, give you an entry to the Spade K , or a free finesse in D or an entry to dummy via a heart.

He exits with a diamond, and you cannot get to the king of spades.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
0

#5 User is offline   BunnyGo 

  • Lamentable Bunny
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,505
  • Joined: 2008-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, ME

Posted 2012-October-21, 19:38

Cute.

Spoiler

Bridge Personality: 44 44 43 34

Never tell the same lie twice. - Elim Garek on the real moral of "The boy who cried wolf"
0

#6 User is offline   bigbenvic 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 317
  • Joined: 2011-October-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 2012-October-21, 19:58

Ah I see, I did say I'm not great at these!

I was on the right track but as usual just not quite there.
1

#7 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,367
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2012-October-21, 20:48

We have 12 winners....5 diamonds, 4 clubs, and 3 majors but the problem is how to get to our hand to hook diamonds twice.

My initial thinking was run the clubs, after cashing the spade A, and then hook a diamond and lead a small heart from AJxx, but E can keep a diamond exit, giving us the 5th diamond but we don't get the spade K.

So we need to keep the club entry to our hand.

Win the club A or K, spade A and low heart now. If he leads a spade, we win to hook the diamond and then still have the club communication....and it does him no good to give us the free hook by leading a diamond this time.

And if he leads a heart, we have the 10 as the extra entry, so there is no way out.

Took 4 minutes:)

But it is easier when presented as a known double dummy problem without the bias of actually having played the hand, which has the tendency of locking us in, temporarily, to lines we'd take at the table. Knowing it is double dummy means rejecting any 'obvious' line we'd take:)

Sorry, I see i was beaten to the answer:)

This post has been edited by mikeh: 2012-October-21, 20:49

'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#8 User is offline   twoshy 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 66
  • Joined: 2011-March-10

Posted 2012-October-21, 21:25

View Postlamford, on 2012-October-21, 19:23, said:

The hand is interesting as a single-dummy problem too. Say matchpoints in 3NT after East, who made a weak jump overcall in hearts, leads a spade or a club.


This is true, in fact it is probably better as a single dummy problem since it is a good test of technique. How about this:

1. A
2-3. AK (removing RHO's hypothetical doubleton)
4. to RHO
5. K
6. J
7. A
8-9. QT, squeezing LHO between QJxx and Qxxxx
1

#9 User is offline   lamford 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,473
  • Joined: 2007-October-15

Posted 2012-October-22, 10:40

View Posttwoshy, on 2012-October-21, 21:25, said:

This is true, in fact it is probably better as a single dummy problem since it is a good test of technique. How about this:

1. A
2-3. AK (removing RHO's hypothetical doubleton)
4. to RHO
5. K
6. J
7. A
8-9. QT, squeezing LHO between QJxx and Qxxxx

That is a nice extra chance. The only trap to avoid is not to lead the jack of hearts, as East ducks!
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
0

#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2012-October-22, 10:45

it took me about 15 seconds to figure out the winning line, but I think I was just lucky to try it early, then half a minute or so to assure it was winning.
0

#11 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,092
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2012-October-22, 10:59

There are a few variations to this. My first thought was AK, J overtaking, finesse diamond, A, and low heart.

Traps include leading the J (East ducks) or cashing the 4th club too early, which squeezes dummy out of a low heart, but you can survive by discarding the J.

2-3 minutes I guess.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#12 User is offline   ewj 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 303
  • Joined: 2005-April-12

Posted 2012-October-22, 12:37

Well I thought this looked pretty easy and thought, ace of spades + 4 rounds of clubs d finesse, then a low heart and RHO is endplayed but I suppose they can just play a diamond and you only have 11 tricks.
But you can just cash one club, ace of spades, then play a low heart? Now if East plays a diamond you still have your club entry and easily have 12 tricks. And anything else would give you an extra entry to dummy anyway so I suppose that is it, right?
1

#13 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,367
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2012-October-22, 12:43

View PostPhil, on 2012-October-22, 10:59, said:

There are a few variations to this. My first thought was AK, J overtaking, finesse diamond, A, and low heart.

Traps include leading the J (East ducks) or cashing the 4th club too early, which squeezes dummy out of a low heart, but you can survive by discarding the J.

2-3 minutes I guess.

and after your first thought, rho returns a diamond, and down you go. You lack any entry to the spade K or the long club, and you need both of them
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#14 User is offline   dwar0123 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 770
  • Joined: 2011-September-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bellevue, WA

Posted 2012-October-22, 13:51

Took me about 4 minutes to find black ace black ace small heart.

View Postlamford, on 2012-October-22, 10:40, said:

That is a nice extra chance. The only trap to avoid is not to lead the jack of hearts, as East ducks!


This is a pseudo trap, you still actually make.

4 diamonds 2 hearts 4 clubs 2 spades.
Just give up the queen of diamonds without finessing it.
1

#15 User is offline   lamford 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,473
  • Joined: 2007-October-15

Posted 2012-October-22, 14:20

View Postdwar0123, on 2012-October-22, 13:51, said:

Took me about 4 minutes to find black ace black ace small heart.



This is a pseudo trap, you still actually make.

4 diamonds 2 hearts 4 clubs 2 spades.
Just give up the queen of diamonds without finessing it.

That fails when West has Q9xxx and QJxx (in the single dummy variation), which is what I was commenting on.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
0

#16 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,092
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2012-October-22, 14:29

View Postmikeh, on 2012-October-22, 12:43, said:

and after your first thought, rho returns a diamond, and down you go. You lack any entry to the spade K or the long club, and you need both of them


yeah, true.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users