[el mister]

I declared this one last night at the club [bidding is a bit rough and ready, playing acol with a pick-up partner without much discussion].

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A♣ led, ♣ continuation and tragedy - RHO ruffs and the contract is defeated. Clubs are split 6-1.

Now, this contract seems OK to me tbh - just done by a terrible split. Cycling home I was musing on what level of player you'd need to be to find the cold contract of 6NT. Even given v precise slam bidding methods, is a killer ♣ split something a v good player will be weighing up as a possibility, such that they would reject the ♥ slam? Or is basically everyone from me upwards playing in 6♥ and that's just the way it goes?

If you would find 6NT, be interested to hear your reasoning.

[dwar0123]

I assume imps?

6nt seems pretty automatic at matchpoints.

[FM75]

Tough beat! With a pickup partner, you need a clueless partner to stop in 3N or 4H.

With my regular precision partner, we have the following auction available:
1♣(1) - 1♠(2)
1NT (3) - 2♥ (4)
3♥(5) - 4♥ (6)
5♣(7) - 5♦(8)

6NT (9)
6♥(10)


1) 16+ not 4441
2) Balanced hand, no 5 card spades 8+ forcing
3) Control ask - also right-sides if we end up in NT
4) 4 controls - A=2, K=1 - So from Declarer either A, and 2 kings or 2 Aces and 0 kings (4 kings eliminated by looking at your cards) and p will become declarer in hearts.
5) Trump asking in hearts
6) Positive trump setting reply - top honor 4th - so p has A♥
7) Control ask in clubs
8) Third round control - p has A♥, pointed Kings and third round control in clubs xx, or Qx[x]

9) Dirty Harry time - are you feeling lucky? if p has club Q you are winning in pairs
10) Usually you will be winning in imps or pairs.

6-1 ♣ is much less likely than partner having the ♣Q I need (33%)

Note that if you pick 6 ♥, the lead will not be the ♣A, but might very well be the singleton.

Tough beat!!

[lalldonn]

I think south can just bid 6NT. What north hand is he worried about? South is so strong that I'm having trouble thinking of one where 6NT isn't at least as good. xx Jxxx KJxx AQJ (and the same hand with slightly different shapes) is all I can come up with, and that's so specific I don't think it's worth worrying about, plus they would still have to lead a spade maybe from the K or Q which is not easy against 6NT or if they have neither spade honor they would have to get lucky on lead between all the side suits with no honors, plus 6♥ could go down too. Certainly if 6NT is just as good you want to bid it. North might have four clubs, and a 5-1 split isn't all that unusual.

If you really want a system way to find it, a few top pairs play an impossible trump suit at the 6 level (often the suit one below your actual trump suit, like 6♦ here) is a choice between 6 of your suit and 6NT. If used here then north would easily choose 6NT. But that is not something I recommend for most pairs. Even here where it seems there is no possible suit but hearts you would want to be very sure of what you're doing, and not think that for example south was 2542 and looking for the 4-4 fit.

No matter how you slice it you were unlucky!

[Fluffy]

north forgot to cuebid over 3♥, after noth cuebids 3♠, south cues clubs, and north diamonds hand is a bit easier specially if 2NT denies shortness.

Still you could find a terrible hand where north has ♠Kxxx ♥Axxxx ♦Kx ♣Qx or just ♣Jxxx with discards in spades or diamonds. As dwar said this hand is easier at MPs when you ain to 6NT but not for the extra safety.

[gnasher]

As Josh says, if South has to guess the final contract he should choose 6NT, not 6♥.

The main problem with the auction was the second round. You got all the way to 4♥ with almost no information exchanged except that there was a heart fit.

Using 2NT as a game-forcing raise has a cost: it uses up a lot of space. What you are supposed to get in return is the opportunity to explore slam prospects below game. If your methods mean that you're having an auction like this with two ordinary hands, you're not making sensible use of the space.

A big improvement would be for responder to bid 3NT, showing a minimum game-force. Then:
1♥-2NT
3♥-3NT
4♣-4♦
4♠
and now North can Keycard his way to 6NT.

[Zelandakh]

I hope you remembered to drop the ♣K under the ace. If you were playing this in the BBO Acol club then this ruse will work a high proportion of the time. Anyway, a possible auction for my strong club system is:-

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 2♦ = 4-5 hearts, 0-3 spades, balanced or 3-suited, GF
2♥ = relay, usually 18+
... - 3♣ = bal with 4 diamonds
3♦ = relay
... - 3♥ = 2443
3♠ = relay
... - 4♥ = extras, 4 controls
4♠ = relay
... - 5♦ = controls in hearts and diamonds, not clubs
5NT = Q ask
... - 6♦ = ♣Q, no ♦Q
6NT

The OP auction illustrates a common problem with RKCB, not being able to find key suit cards with a key card missing in order to decide between 6 of the suit and 6NT.

[SteveMoe]

Agree Zel, Gnasher, Fluffy, lalldon, FM75...

South knows the missing key card is an Ace. If the hand makes 12 tricks then NS might want to be in NT for the extra 10. Bidding and shape information indicates whether ruffing a side suit is necesary for control/tricks. South also knows they have 2 balanced/semi-balanced hands, reducing (but not necessarily eliminating) the need for ruffs to make 12. What South doesn't know is North holds ♣QJ...so bidding 6N will do one of 4 things: give you an above average score when 12 tricks are there, 2) Improve your declarer play when partner tables a 12 count, 3) buy some small insurance against Ace and ruff at trick 2, and 4) have you buy partner a beer during the post mortem.

Wouldn't you like North to show controls somewhere after 2N?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Fluffy, on 2012-October-02, 22:44, said:

North forgot to cuebid over 3♥, after noth cuebids 3♠, south cues clubs, and north diamonds hand is a bit easier specially if 2NT denies shortness.

I agree with Fluff.... about the 3S cue ... but Responder should eventually take charge with RKC since Opener has shown the "big hand" and NO shortness with the 3H rebid ( Jacoby ) ..... and settle in 6NT missing 1 key card .

Responder can almost count 12 tricks ( from the combined hcp ) even if partner has only a 5 card ♥ suit.

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2012-October-06, 08:07