Note to self: jschafer may or may not owe me a drink.
Do you dare? Entering the auction vulnerable
#1
Posted 2012-June-07, 16:12
Note to self: jschafer may or may not owe me a drink.
-- Bertrand Russell
#2
Posted 2012-June-07, 16:35
(still learning)
#3
Posted 2012-June-07, 17:00
If your agreement is penalty doubles (thus alerted), then no, it isn't one.
#4
Posted 2012-June-07, 17:08
![:)](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Intuitively pass but I see many ways it can backfire (1S - p - 1N - p 2S p p p and we are cold for 6H opposite Axxxxx of h and nothing more while even defeating 2S is questionable).
#5
Posted 2012-June-07, 17:32
EDIT - Now, move a Diamond honor to the Heart suit, and then I hate all my options, Pass probably being the least disgusting of them all. Then I KNOW partner will have the minors and shortness in the Majors, so I'll give the opponents a little rope and hope they hang themselves.
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself."
"One advantage of bad bidding is that you get practice at playing atrocious contracts."
-Alfred Sheinwold
#6
Posted 2012-June-07, 17:45
chasetb, on 2012-June-07, 17:32, said:
Director!
(still learning)
#7
Posted 2012-June-07, 18:00
#8
Posted 2012-June-07, 18:17
bluecalm, on 2012-June-07, 17:08, said:
I have bigger worries than my opponents deciding to play in my 5-card suit while my partner's 6-card suit is supposed to be opposite my 4-card suit, not my singleton. If we have a 10-card heart fit, we may still find it after passing...
#9
Posted 2012-June-07, 18:33
cherdano, on 2012-June-07, 18:17, said:
I think you missed the point: if it's even possible to miss slam, how much easier must it be to miss game?
-- Bertrand Russell
#10
Posted 2012-June-07, 18:48
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#11
Posted 2012-June-07, 20:02
mgoetze, on 2012-June-07, 18:33, said:
But we are not missing game! If we have a big heart fit, they will bid clubs and we can make a takeout double.
If you are this worried about missing game, you probably think this hand is better than it is.
#12
Posted 2012-June-07, 23:41
Even if opener is extremely aggressive you rate to have at least 25 points between your hand and opener's hand. That leaves about a max of 15 between the other 2 hands. If the points are evenly split, the hand is likely a part score hand. If partner has enough values for game than responder probably doesn't have enough to make a call and partner will be able to balance.
#13
Posted 2012-June-08, 02:39
- hrothgar
#14
Posted 2012-June-08, 03:35
#15
Posted 2012-June-08, 05:55
#16
Posted 2012-June-08, 10:14
bluecalm, on 2012-June-07, 17:08, said:
![:)](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Intuitively pass but I see many ways it can backfire (1S - p - 1N - p 2S p p p and we are cold for 6H opposite Axxxxx of h and nothing more while even defeating 2S is questionable).
Partner just might balance with short spades and Ace-sixth of hearts.
#17
Posted 2012-June-08, 10:52
Second choice - Pass.
Really, those green cards are in the bidding box for a reason.
Pass is not a 4-letter word (OK, it is a 4-letter word, but not that kind of 4-letter word).
#18
Posted 2012-June-08, 15:16
so yes i'd bid 1nt to get my strength across, if not my shape.
i'm not worried about being sawn off - partner must have short spades and should have somewhere to run to if we get cracked.
oh and if i'm wrong and it does get crunched and partner doesn't run, i'll run to 2c and (hopefully) blue it.
#19
Posted 2012-June-09, 10:36
At the other table, the enemy had solid agreements on runouts, whereas our teammates didn't:
The combined total cost was 12 IMPs.
-- Bertrand Russell
#20
Posted 2012-June-09, 12:10
![:P](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Your 1N is really just understrength. Having 5 of their 5 card suit makes your hand much worse, you have no potential to set up spade tricks like you do with most 5 card suits. Having all of your honors in short suits is obviously bad, they don't help you set up tricks as much as usual. Even your 4 card suit is just Kxxx! Add that to the fact that you only have 15, your hand is just not worth 1N. Your spade values are not even positional, it's the jack. Having a stiff club is a negative, it's possible partner will compete in clubs or overestimate his clubs. And having 5 of their suit is bad when you have such a bad hand because if you get doubled you will often have nowhere to run (as here).
It's true our hand is much better for hearts than NT, but if the opps bid clubs (eg 1S p 1N P 2C seems likely) you can at least double and get your side in much more safely with more chance of playing in a fit (and possibly get a penalty if it is their misfit). If they keep bidding your long suits, well that's good, you will get to defend vulnerable with their suits breaking badly when you rate to not make anything. Forget about going for numbers, even going -100 when you could have gone +200 is extremely expensive and not unlikely (1S 1N AP instead of defending 2S).
I would just expect to get too high too often by overcalling 1N (when partner bids 3N), I'd expect a disaster some non-negligible percentage of the time when they nail me, I'd expect to lose many many partscore swings all vul which will be very expensive because I declare 1N or 3C instead of defending, and I'd expect to miss 4H sometimes (though I'd still get to it sometimes after 1S P 1N p 2C X). The loss of r/r partscore swings frequently occuring is what is really bad.