[mgoetze]

IMPs NV

---

Do you agree with all these decisions or would you have done something differently?

[Cyberyeti]

3♦ seems a bit odd, can't partner be 4234 ?

Even seeing both hands I'm not clear what I want to be in, so not much else to say.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

West's hand is closer to 16 than 15 .... accept the invite with 3NT .

[gnasher]

3♦ can't really be to play - responder has shown invitational values, so now he's showing an invitational hand with 5 hearts and 4+ diamonds. With the auction up to there, I think opener, with three aces and a diamond fit, should raise to 4♦ (or maybe a choice-of-games 4♣). Then responder should convert to 4♥, because his hearts are good enough for a 5-2 fit.

With opener's hand I'd probably have bid 3NT after 2♠, but maybe that's wrong. Part of the point of these methods is to allow invitations on 5-5 6- and 7-counts, so presumably opener should be conservative about accepting when he doesn't have a fit.

[han]

gnasher, on 2012-June-05, 12:14, said:

Part of the point of these methods is to allow invitations on 5-5 6- and 7-counts.

A 6-count opposite a 14-16 1NT opening?

For the rest I agree with you.

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on 2012-June-05, 12:14, said:

With opener's hand I'd probably have bid 3NT after 2♠, but maybe that's wrong. Part of the point of these methods is to allow invitations on 5-5 6- and 7-counts, so presumably opener should be conservative about accepting when he doesn't have a fit.

Just play 3C=max with 2 hearts but rejecting a light club invite, 3D=max with 2 hearts, good club it, bad diamond fit. I agree that bidding 3N with a hand like this when your partner could have a shapely invite is very wrong.

[han]

Justin you are a goldmine.

[JLOGIC]

Passing 3D seems like easily the worst decision of the auction. Probably every bid is reasonable. I forgot who gave me this hand but I think I said I'd bid 5D and not try for playing 4H, but if you wanted to try to keep 4H in play that seems fine.

I would not bid 3D with the east hand either but obviously it could work well.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

mgoetze, on 2012-June-05, 11:01, said:

IMPs NV

---

Do you agree with all these decisions or would you have done something differently?

I don't know why no one has commented on the 2S ?

Doesn't 2S here show 4 cards ♠ ( w/ 5 cards ♥ ) invitational values?

Whereas:
1NT - 2D!
2H - 2NT = invite w/5♥ and less than 4 cards ♠ ( and still room for Justin's 3C/3D gadget for Opener ) .

[mgoetze]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-June-05, 13:57, said:

Doesn't 2S here show 4 cards ♠

No.

Quote

Whereas:
1NT - 2D!
2H - 2NT =

= GF with 4+ clubs.

[gwnn]

W has a massive hand, he should maybe re-read something on Aces and quacks in the trump suit?

[kenrexford]

I have played a method somewhat similar (2♣...2♠ as five SPADES and invitational). My thoughts:

IMO, Opener should be allowed to bid 2NT to decline. Responder can always continue on after 2NT if he has the unbalanced hand.

I sort of like Justin's idea, but I would probably not go quite the same direction that he suggests. I would have 3♣ as a club accept and 3♦ as a diamond accept. In the former, we can stop in 3♦. In the former, we can technically stop in 3♥, but 3NT is also a possibility. Also, in either situation, the "accept" is forcing and might be based upon a heart fit.

This method has the obvious cost that with club bleh but diamond acceptance you might end up in a lousy 3♥ or lousy 3NT on occasion. (But, then the hedge of 2NT has somewhat of a pro-diamond mild message, which might induce further bidding by Responder...) The benefit is that you gain the ability to make a fit-bid of sorts on route.

In other words, imagine this auction:

1NT-2♦
2♥-2♠!
3♣-?

Opener is actually sitting there with a heart fit, borderline values, with a hand that fits well opposite a club-heart hand but not a diamond-heart hand. If Responder has clubs-heartrs, he bids beyond 3♦, and Opener now accepts the game try. If Respondfer, instead, bids 3♦, Opener goes back to 3♥.

Thus, you end up with Opener making an "Empathetic Help-Suit Game Try Acceptance." (EHSGTA, for all those who like acronyms.)

[han]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-June-05, 13:57, said:

I don't know why no one has commented on the 2S ?

Doesn't 2S here show 4 cards ♠ ( w/ 5 cards ♥ ) invitational values?

Whereas:
1NT - 2D!
2H - 2NT = invite w/5♥ and less than 4 cards ♠ ( and still room for Justin's 3C/3D gadget for Opener ) .

On the bidding diagram you can see that some bids have been alerted. Click on them to see the partnership agreements.

[dake50]

Did I see this hand in 6D? The jist being 2xS
off on Hearts, so DK loser is all.
I'm thinking Krystof Martens declarer play
problems was where I saw it.

[ByChechi]

....III-th (IV-th) round , new color.....Common ! Must to play any game !....

[gnasher]

JLOGIC, on 2012-June-05, 12:35, said:

Just play 3C=max with 2 hearts but rejecting a light club invite, 3D=max with 2 hearts, good club it, bad diamond fit.

han said:

Justin you are a goldmine.

I think it's more like tin or copper on this occasion - valuable but not quite perfect. I agree that this works, but i we're about to bid a thin 3NT we don't really want to tell the opponents anything about opener's side-suits.

[JLOGIC]

Gnasher, for you I'd just suggest playing 3C=max with a doubleton. I play this with one partner (mainly because we include 5-5 majors GF in our 2S bid and need to play 3D=max with heart fit). Over that you can either pass with clubs since you usually don't have a 5 of a minor game (and responder is not interested in 3N), or you can play some bid shows clubs and you have to stop in 4C or 3H when opener doesn't like clubs, it's up to you. I still think that bidding 3N on random max with no fit is a really bad way to approach this, a non NT oriented invite is pretty common ime.

This at least gives away no more info than 3N showing a max with no fit and allows you to stop in 3m.

[yin970902]

my choice is:
------P
1NT-2♦
2♥-3♦
P

[mgoetze]

yin970902, on 2012-June-13, 22:09, said:

my choice is:
------P
1NT-2♦
2♥-3♦
P

Are you saying you would force to game with the East hand opposite a 14-16 1NT opener? It could be a bit uncomfortable to play 3NT with 23 HCP and no fit... (In our system GF with diamonds would have been 1NT-2♦; 2♥-3♣.)



@dake50: This is surely not from a book, as I played it at a tournament, but indeed 6♦ was makeable. Being in only 3♦, I contented myself with 11 tricks.

[rhm]

mgoetze, on 2012-June-05, 11:01, said:

IMPs NV

---

Do you agree with all these decisions or would you have done something differently?

my choice is:
------P
1NT-2♦
2♥-3♥
4♥

From East perspective I doubt that ♦ will play two tricks better than ♥ often enough to be worthwhile.
For notrump to have chances you will normally need the heart suit to come in in time. But then the heart game will often also make.
The opposite is not true.
3♥ puts opener in a good position with a doubleton heart to judge between pass, 3NT and 4♥

As the bidding went West final pass shows poor judgment. With the knowledge that partner is short in a black suit I would jump to 5♦.

Rainer Herrmann