[Fluffy]

♠KQJx
♥AKJxx
♦-
♣K9xx


1♥-(pass)-1♠-(1NT*)
4♦-(5♦)-6♥-(pass)

1NT= both minors

[Mbodell]

No. I pass.

[Yu18772]

Pass
Yu

[Codo]

pass- 6 clubs or 5 NT had invited me stronger...

[aguahombre]

More than one general principle involved:

1) If you feel the splinter was inadequate, don't splinter.
2) You put partner in charge; he chose.
3) Partner didn't invite you to bid more; don't bid more.

[RunemPard]

You cannot ignore partner not showing the ♣A...If he decided that he did not need to after your 4D jump, I give you permission to smack him with a fish.

[Fluffy]

you cannot ignore either that partner cannot playin hearts if he doesn't bid them now. But that's not the point anyway, the question is not about trusting partner or whatever, its about how often do you think you will make grand.

This time you didn't.

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on 2012-May-24, 04:24, said:

you cannot ignore either that partner cannot playin hearts if he doesn't bid them now.

If he is trying to bale out of a spade contract, he will be asking himself why He bid spades in the first place. The next time, he won't do that and will be able to properly cue his controls rather than worry about the monster he created by bidding a non suit on the first round.

[benlessard]

Its imo impossible for partner to have only 1 keycard and bid 6. WTP 7H since in 7S i might get a H ruffed at trick 1.

[aguahombre]

benlessard, on 2012-May-24, 07:21, said:

Its imo impossible for partner to have only 1 keycard and bid 6. WTP 7H since in 7S i might get a H ruffed at trick 1.

In 7S, the hand which has shown the minors will be on lead. Isn't he the one more likely to have a void than the other guy?

However, bidding 7 of anything presupposes that responder actually has the first round club control and didn't show it.

[benlessard]

aguahombre, on 2012-May-24, 10:47, said:

In 7S, the hand which has shown the minors will be on lead. Isn't he the one more likely to have a void than the other guy?

However, bidding 7 of anything presupposes that responder actually has the first round club control and didn't show it.

Good point, however show me a hand where partner bid 6 with only 1 black ace ?

[aguahombre]

benlessard, on 2012-May-24, 10:58, said:

Good point, however show me a hand where partner bid 6 with only 1 black ace ?

AXXXX QXXXX XX X. We already know we don't like starting with a 1s response when we have heart support, but maybe this guy does.

[benlessard]

aguahombre, on 2012-May-24, 11:08, said:

AXXXX QXXXX XX X. We already know we don't like starting with a 1s response when we have heart support, but maybe this guy does.

Even this hand partner might bid only 5S or more likely just make a splinter rather than bidding spades.

Passing 6 because youre afraid to go down in 7 in case partner misbid is just terrible bridge. I dont see how 7S isnt at least a 95% contract.

[aguahombre]

benlessard, on 2012-May-24, 12:35, said:

Passing 6 because youre afraid to go down in 7 in case partner misbid is just terrible bridge. I dont see how 7S isnt at least a 95% contract.

And going to 7 in case partner misbid doesn't work well for us, either.

[ggwhiz]

Partner has spoken.

One of my favorite lines from a bidding contest (Allan Graves), I don't mind a poor result to maintain partnership integrity.

If you bid the grand and go down you are on your way to the partnership desk. If you make it you are just on borrowed time.

You are off the A♣ period or your pard is standing the first round(s). A classic win-win.

[twoshy]

Let's rule out the possibility of partner having equal length in the majors. That just seems silly when it is easy for partner to make an accurate raise on the first round. The normal hand types for spades-then-hearts with genuine heart support are a bad hand, a limit raise (or close enough), and a GF hand. We should ignore the hands with 5♠ and 3♥ since partner would prefer to play spades. That leaves 5♠ and 4♥ versus 4♠ and 3♥. Even for 5♠4♥, I still don't know why partner wants to play in hearts, isn't he happy to ruff a diamond while pitching a club on the long heart? Besides which, he could have cuebid to make our life much easier. I'll play partner for 4♠3♥, which is even more likely given that partner has a poor ♠ suit. I probably want to know Fluffy and partner's initial response with 4-3 and a GF, but I don't care that much since grand is going to have handling issues in the 44, especially if bad breaks are lurking.

Oops, I missed the main part of the problem: play 6♥ or 6♠?

[aguahombre]

twoshy, on 2012-May-24, 21:40, said:

oops, I missed the main part of the problem: play 6♥ or 6♠?

To borrow from ggwhiz: "Partner has spoken". That applies to strain as well as to level, and would have saved you the effort you put into the analysis which preceeded that question.

[twoshy]

Don't worry, there wasn't much effort. I don't normally play partner for something he can't hold

Anyway, this isn't the auction for mantras. We could hold Qxxx, AKJxxx or KQJx, Axxxx. We have something in between, so let's try using our judgement. 6♠.

[dboxley]

aguahombre, on 2012-May-23, 02:23, said:

More than one general principle involved:

1) If you feel the splinter was inadequate, don't splinter.
2) You put partner in charge; he chose.
3) Partner didn't invite you to bid more; don't bid more.

ditto, ditto, ditto

[benlessard]

Maybe im not on the same planet but sfter opener showed a void (its in their suit so 3D is a splinter and 4D is a void) there are 8 working cards.

AKQ of S
AKQ of H
AK of clubs

on a bad day the Q of club might be of value but its far from being the same values as the other cards. Both M queen dont have full values since we are very likely in a 9 card fit but since the suit wont break that well they have values.

IMO a 4D slam show at least 4 of these 8 cards.
AQxx
AKxxxx
--
xxx

Axxx
AQxxx
--
Axxx

etc

To think that responder is going to bid 6 holding only 2 of those like the Q of H and only one black ace is just crazy, Also note that with a stiff club he would have splinter at round 1 and with 2 quick losers in a suit that is going to be led near 100% of the times he wont bid slam, so its nearly impossible he doesnt have the A of clubs.

Note that partner cannot bid slam with a hand like

Jxxxx
Qxxx
AQ
AQ

Because youre going to lose 2 tricks too often the K of clubs is likely to be with the 1NT hand and the majors honnors are likely to be with the 5D hands.

Note that its slightly possible to have a hand too strong to make a splinter in clubs like

Jxxxx
Qxxx
AQJ
A

But this particular hand is way less likely that a normal AJxxx,Qxxx,xx,Ax wich is a normal 6H bid. I jsut want to make sure that you understand that its crazy to make a 6C bid (try for 7) with only 3/8 working cards.