[sailoranch]

---

Unfavorable at IMPs.

Please feel free to tell me if this is wtp. Thanks in advance.

[the_clown]

X is completely obvious for me, planning to bid 2♠, over 2♦/♥ from p

[mike777]

I think my options are pass or 2s now.

I will try 2s but can live with pass.

[nige1]

sailoranch writes "Unfavorable at IMPs. Please feel free to tell me if this is wtp. Thanks in advance.

IMO Pass=10, 2♠ = 9. Double = 8. This is hard. A modern partner is marked with tram-tickets, you ar vulnerable, and you are currently on lead to a contract that you hope to defeat. Hence discretion may be the better part of valour. If LHO takes out into a red suit, you can revise your strategy

Reading all the other posts has changed my mind: Now I agree that double = 10.

---

This post has been edited by nige1: 2012-April-29, 13:21

[nigel_k]

I would double, then bid 2♠ if they pull to a red suit.

I don't agree that our chances of beating 1NT are better than our chances of making 2♠ or 3♣. East might have bid Stayman with a weak 3442 or similar hand so could easily be 2452 and we can't hold up in diamonds. When 1NT is failing and they pull it, we have enough shape to expect that partner's choice of black suit will have pretty good play. If the double ends the auction, probably RHO is balanced which gives us a much better chance of beating it.

[mgoetze]

Huh... I always thought double shows about 18-19 balanced here, from which we are a long way off, and hence this is a 2♠ bid.

[benlessard]

With a decent partner passing is surely right. When hes low in pts he know that I cant have a balanced hand (if you play strong NT) and hes going to lead clubs almost automatically. 3C is always going to be dangerous and I much prefer to defend against 1NT than 2D. Its even possible that 1Nt go down and they make 3D.

Quote

East might have bid Stayman with a weak 3442 or similar hand

Ps i dont think 2C can be used as a garbage stayman here, since the 1Nt is a bit wide range most expert players i know expect 2C to always be at least inv so that overcaller can jump with a max and bid 2D/2H/2S with a min.

[mikeh]

mgoetze, on 2012-April-26, 01:05, said:

Huh... I always thought double shows about 18-19 balanced here, from which we are a long way off, and hence this is a 2♠ bid.

That's not my understanding: I think double just shows a powerhouse, and partner may pass or bid as he sees fit....he will bid as if we have an 18-19, and we have to be prepared for that, but of course we are.

Should he pass, we can be happy...he will have a smattering of points and will usually, but not always, lead a club.

Meanwhile, if he pulls to 2♣ we can pass, and maybe avoid 3♣ failing. Even if we have 9 tricks, I'd rather be in 2♣ than 3♣.

If he pulls to 2red, we bid 2♠ and we are now where you are, but we got there with two winning options unavailable to you.....collecting a penalty or playing 2♣.

Note that partner is not 'marked with tram tickets' as one poster asserted. One needs a decent hand for responder to double 1N in this auction....scattered 8 counts shouldn't double.

xxx KJxx KJxx xx shouldn't double 1N, yet we can expect to get very rich after a reopening double and advancer has nowhere to run.

[JLOGIC]

mikeh, on 2012-April-26, 11:47, said:

xxx KJxx KJxx xx shouldn't double 1N, yet we can expect to get very rich after a reopening double and advancer has nowhere to run.

Probably the 1N overcallers fault for psyching with nowhere to run. Ok, Ok, not a psyche just a horrible 14 count opposite a passed partner.

Just kidding, this is actually a stupid post, I agree with everything you said.

[rduran1216]

I honestly think passing is one of the worst calls in history. your partner is allowed to hold a 5 count here, do we really wanna let 1NT white go all pass?

[benlessard]

Maybe im wrong but i feel that since West is lacking AK of clubs, 1Nt instead of doubling suggest QJxx or Q9xx in clubs. With a 2353 shape I would need exactly 18 pts to bid 1Nt instead of 1D.

With many 4333 I would X rather than 1Nt even if Ive got 17 pts. So i dont think our prospect in 3C (if partner doesnt have 4S) are good. Those who think we are going to play 1Ntx are way too optimist.

[ahydra]

I was undecided on this yesterday but am now going to put myself in the 2S camp. We're not going to play 1NTX - look at our red-suit holdings.

ahydra

[FrancesHinden]

I would pass on most 18-19 balanced hands. I think double suggests that 1NT is going off if partner leads our suit, so is not necessarily balanced.
I would double. It's not going to end the auction, but at least it's descriptive to start with.

I would think a 2S bid now would look more like KQJxx x x Axxxxx.

[FrancesHinden]

benlessard, on 2012-April-26, 17:48, said:

Maybe im wrong but i feel that since West is lacking AK of clubs, 1Nt instead of doubling suggest QJxx or Q9xx in clubs. With a 2353 shape I would need exactly 18 pts to bid 1Nt instead of 1D.

With many 4333 I would X rather than 1Nt even if Ive got 17 pts. So i dont think our prospect in 3C (if partner doesnt have 4S) are good. Those who think we are going to play 1Ntx are way too optimist.

You might bid like that.
I've seen plenty of people overcall 1NT against a potentially short 1C on all sorts of random rubbish with or without a club stop.

[fromageGB]

I would like an extra spade, but I don't like doubling when I expect the 1NT bidder to have Ax Kx KQJTx QJxx. 2♠ for me.

[mikeh]

ahydra, on 2012-April-27, 04:15, said:

I was undecided on this yesterday but am now going to put myself in the 2S camp. We're not going to play 1NTX - look at our red-suit holdings.

ahydra

Answer me this: how is 2♠ now better than double? if you are right, and partner will 'always pull' (which is nonsense.....it is impossible to be so dogmatic), why can't you then bid 2♠?

[gszes]

mikeh, on 2012-April-27, 15:56, said:

Answer me this: how is 2♠ now better than double? if you are right, and partner will 'always pull' (which is nonsense.....it is impossible to be so dogmatic), why can't you then bid 2♠?

With a powerhouse balanced hand you would x and assuming p will pull to 2h
with zip you can then bid 2s but you cant show this hand that way. If
p has little more than jxxxx xxx xxx xx I want to be in 4s and the only way
to show this type of hand is to bid 2s now. P will not bid game on their own
after 2s but they should at least raise to 3s with 5 card support for your suit.

this hand is much more offensive in nature than defensive so x here does this hand
an overall disservice while 2s pinpoints the 2 suited/offensive nature of your hand.

[mikeh]

gszes, on 2012-April-27, 16:29, said:

With a powerhouse balanced hand you would x and assuming p will pull to 2h
with zip you can then bid 2s but you cant show this hand that way. If
p has little more than jxxxx xxx xxx xx I want to be in 4s and the only way
to show this type of hand is to bid 2s now. P will not bid game on their own
after 2s but they should at least raise to 3s with 5 card support for your suit.

this hand is much more offensive in nature than defensive so x here does this hand
an overall disservice while 2s pinpoints the 2 suited/offensive nature of your hand.

you're kidding, right? Did you think through the auctions after double?

[fromageGB]

deleted

[gszes]

mikeh, on 2012-April-27, 16:50, said:

you're kidding, right? Did you think through the auctions after double?

lets assume the bidding goes
1c 1n p p
x p 2h p
2s

it is my contention this 2s bid merely shows
a dislike of 2h. This can be with a variety
of balanced powerhouse hands or even a defensive
type of 64 similar to
AKxx xx AKQ Kxxx
AQxx x AQ KQxxxx

this allows you to save the 2s bid for hands
similar or even slightly better (offensively)
than the example hand.

the two examples shown take considerably more
power from p to make a game. The ability to
bid 2s here with a highly offensive hand will
allow p to make a quick decision on where and
how high to go.