[broze]

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Your bid.

[mike777]

4s give up on slam.

option 2 is double.

[mr1303]

Double. I imagine all roads will lead to 4S here, but I start with double nonetheless.

[Cyberyeti]

I don't know how people play this, but 2♠ in this seat I play as SJO or close to, 4♠ is to play, but what is 3♠ ? is it a hand like this which is better than a SJO and too good for 4♠ ? if so I'd like to bid that.

Without discussion, 4♠ and if partner has xxx, AKxx, x, xxxxx and I make 7 that's just unlucky.

[JLOGIC]

mr1303, on 2012-April-25, 14:06, said:

Double. I imagine all roads will lead to 4S here, but I start with double nonetheless.

Strange, if I had to guess a contract right now I would think 3N is at least a reasonable shot. I would start with double and if my partner bid hearts I would be angling towards 3N. We might also have a cold 6S of course, double seems like a good start then as well since I will find out some information. Who knows, maybe partner will bid 2D or something over my double. Maybe he will bid 1H then over 2D (if you chose that bid) bid 2S then cuebid diamonds later. Maybe he will jump to 2H, then over 2S raise to 3S, then over 4C cuebid 4D. Anything can happen. I don't see any merit to anything but double, why commit to strain or level at this point in the auction? Double is not even a distortion, and even if it was it would not be a risky one at all given that partner couldn't even overcall 1H or 2H or whatever. And, you know, spades is a higher ranking suit than hearts anyways.

[JLOGIC]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-April-25, 16:08, said:

I don't know how people play this, but 2♠ in this seat I play as SJO or close to, 4♠ is to play, but what is 3♠ ? is it a hand like this which is better than a SJO and too good for 4♠ ? if so I'd like to bid that.

Without discussion, 4♠ and if partner has xxx, AKxx, x, xxxxx and I make 7 that's just unlucky.

Bidding a non forcing 3S seems like a hopeless evaluation when we have 9 tricks in our own hand, a stopper in the opponents suit, and no reason to suspect they can and will run 5 heart tricks (in fact, we know LHO does not have 5 hearts, and we know RHO passed 1D which would probably be unusual with almost any hand with 6 hearts, and some hands with 5 hearts). Are you really going to be happy if partner passes 3S?

[benlessard]

Quote

Without discussion, 4♠ and if partner has xxx, AKxx, x, xxxxx and I make 7 that's just unlucky.

passing 4S is a big joke

[mikeh]

I like Justin's point....I admit my first instinct was that 3N looked pretty good.....that should be one's first thought, imo, whenever you are looking at 9 probable tricks. We are trained to think of notrump with a minor and 4M with the major, but that can lead to tunnel vision. Of course, one should never make a call based on one's initial reaction (plus they could run the heart suit )

I agree entirely with double and the point that there can be zero downside to the call. There is literally no plausible action from partner that can derail us, and the idea of giving up on slam seems silly to me.

While slam isn't high frequency here, and we may not get there even if we start with a double, there are a host of hands on which slam is not only cold but biddable and even a grand is not out of the question.

When we get really good hands, we should strive, if possible, to involve partner.

[nige1]

broze asks "Your bid?"

IMO double = 10, 3♦=9, 2♦ = 8, 4♠ = 7. 3N = 6, 2♠ = 4, 1♠ =3, 3♠ = 2, Pass = 1

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[the hog]

nige1, on 2012-April-25, 20:03, said:

broze asks "Your bid?"

IMO double = 10, 3♦=9, 2♦ = 8, 4♠ = 7. 3N = 6, Pass = 1

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I would double on this hand for the reasons already expressed. I look at Nigels' scoring above in wonderment.
Nigel, why do assign a pass a score of 1? Surely this should be 0.

[broze]

The only two actions I was considering were double and 4♠, and I have to admit I didn't think about playing in 3NT at all. Eventually I persuaded myself that double might not work out well if p bids 2♣, in which case our follow-ups were undiscussed. (e.g. x - 2C - 2D - 3C - now what?) So, sure that we would end up there anyway I bid 4♠, passed out.

After the opening lead partner exclaimed: "You've hit the jackpot here p!"

Me: "That is literally the worst hand you could have possibly had."

The full hand:

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[nige1]

the hog, on 2012-April-25, 22:18, said:

I would double on this hand for the reasons already expressed. I look at Nigels' scoring above in wonderment. Nigel, why do assign a pass a score of 1? Surely this should be 0.

I concede that pass is most unlikely to achieve a successful result but it could. I try to give marks for any call that I or anybody else considers could possibly be right.. I give 1-5 marks to calls that I judge are unlikely to work. I deplore the attitude that "my choice is manifestly correct and everybody else is insane".I often change my opinion after reading persuasive arguments

[Cyberyeti]

benlessard, on 2012-April-25, 17:59, said:

passing 4S (on xxx, AKxx, x, xxxxx) is a big joke

Why ? no law against me having KQJ10xxxxx, void, AK, Qx, auto 4♠ and can make nothing higher, there are some hands that can't even make 4♠ that will bid it opposite that (as above with a spade less and a club more for example).

Quote

Bidding a non forcing 3S seems like a hopeless evaluation when we have 9 tricks in our own hand, a stopper in the opponents suit, and no reason to suspect they can and will run 5 heart tricks (in fact, we know LHO does not have 5 hearts, and we know RHO passed 1D which would probably be unusual with almost any hand with 6 hearts, and some hands with 5 hearts). Are you really going to be happy if partner passes 3S?

I was suggesting that I didn't know what 3♠ meant in this seat, and there was an argument for it showing a hand that reckons it is going to make 4♠, but with more potential to make 6 than a direct 4♠ bid. If partner had x, xxxx, xx, xxxxxx or the actual South hand I'm sure I'd want him to pass, but most of the time I'd expect him to bid 4♠. In this case he cues ♦ and we're off to the races.

[benlessard]

As east I wouldnt have passed. The 4S bidder is favorite to have at least 3 diamonds. So East hand look like 3 tricks to me and in worse case scenarion at least 2 tricks for sure. So unless you play in a world where 4th seat bidding isnt intended to make or a world where its Cyberyeti who construct the bridge deal I think 5S is really safe.

[Cyberyeti]

benlessard, on 2012-April-26, 10:31, said:

As east I wouldnt have passed. The 4S bidder is favorite to have at least 3 diamonds. So East hand look like 3 tricks to me and in worse case scenarion at least 2 tricks for sure. So unless you play in a world where 4th seat bidding isnt intended to make or a world where its Cyberyeti who construct the bridge deal I think 5S is really safe.

4♠ says I'm not interested in a slam, if I was I would double playing standardish methods, you are not expected to contribute without something exceptional.