[Phil]

r/w MPs

7xx JT9x T8xxx A

(3♠) - pass - (4♠) - 5♥; p - ?

Judging from the 1st board, your opponents seem like the type where they should be in a novice game but there wasn't a section for that, so they had to either play up or go shopping.

[lalldonn]

God no, do not hang partner. Last time I raised on an auction like this, my "novice" opponents had a 6-1 spade fit and partner had three small as well, expecting me to be short.

[daveharty]

El Paso.

Then again I'm kind of a wimp in these situations.

[mikeh]

I raise, and I almost always swing low. If the opps cash spades on partner, then I will revise my view of the level of the opps.....not sure if I will lower or raise them

But 5♥ red v white is a big position....this isn't an auction on which partner can assume that I have any values at all, so he must have a very good hand....and any diamond honours will (I hope) be onside if needed.

I would pass at any other vulnerability.

[FrancesHinden]

Pass.

[JLOGIC]

I would be a little bit tempted but not really. Obviously easy to see how we could have a slam, but we just don't have enough wood imo.

And yes, partner bid red/white, but this is also the vulnerability they are most likely to have only 9 spades. Partner is under immense pressure to act at this vulnerability, yes he doesn't want to get stolen from but he also doesn't want to have a vulnerable game stolen from him. The same rules apply, he is assuming we have some values when he bids. If he doesn't assume that, he will just get stolen from a lot, which is what that rule aims to prevent and why it exists in the first place.

[lalldonn]

mikeh, on 2012-April-23, 11:06, said:

this isn't an auction on which partner can assume that I have any values at all, so he must have a very good hand

Or just a ton of hearts? Is there any hand at all with 8 solid hearts that partner should pass there? Or 1714 with solid hearts and a club honor?

Slam could be making but IMO the best reason to bid it would be you think your opponents will save. Not enough reason to me.

[Phil]

I bid 6. Partner held K AKQxxx AQxx xx. Obviously its a crappy slam, but it did roll with RHO having ♦Kx.

I never considered these opponents would save, but I did consider that they might have recently signed up for a total tricks lesson and would have 7 opp 3. If you know partner has a spade void, slam looks more appealing, although its not ironclad.

[rmnka447]

I pass. You can't really know if partner has the right cards for 6. AND it might just be possible that partner is making the save.

If 6 makes and the bidding is at all reasonable, I'm sure we'll have some company so the MP result should be decent at worst. If it's going down, I've just turned an average into a near bottom or bottom. I'll take my shots elsewhere.

[mikeh]

lalldonn, on 2012-April-23, 12:17, said:

Or just a ton of hearts? Is there any hand at all with 8 solid hearts that partner should pass there? Or 1714 with solid hearts and a club honor?

Slam could be making but IMO the best reason to bid it would be you think your opponents will save. Not enough reason to me.

I wasn't bidding because I thought slam was cold. I was bidding because I think the hands on which slam has good play outnumber the hands on which it has little play...but that there are lots of hands both ways....and, as I said, I'd pass at any other vulnerability....because I'd then feel that the number of 'slam bad' holdings would exceed the number of 'slam good'.

I doubt that there is any way to even simulate this in a reliable fashion.

[Zelandakh]

Does anyone play 4NT followed by 5♥ as a weaker 5♥ overcall and a direct 5♥ as stronger? This might make the decision easier. Similarly, if playing the proposed method in the 1♠ - 2♠ thread, we would have 2 different strengths of 5♥ bid here. If 5♥ were our only way of overcalling in hearts here then I would pass now.

[FrancesHinden]

Zelandakh, on 2012-April-24, 03:56, said:

Does anyone play 4NT followed by 5♥ as a weaker 5♥ overcall and a direct 5♥ as stronger? This might make the decision easier. Similarly, if playing the proposed method in the 1♠ - 2♠ thread, we would have 2 different strengths of 5♥ bid here. If 5♥ were our only way of overcalling in hearts here then I would pass now.

We've debated that but it's a very dangerous method because it stops partner bidding a slam on the assumption we have a two-suiter (which is what 4NT usually shows).