[stansllee]

 sfi, on 2012-April-10, 03:58, said:

It turns out your hand wasn't even this good:

AT7
7
AK42
AKJT3

If they are going to lead a club to pick up the suit for you, then making slam will be trivial. That doesn't excuse the 2S bid though.

I thought ♠A107 changed AJ10 can slightly reduce the intensity of the criticism, not think of still been criticized severely.
However, to bring the 6♠ home with actually A107 holding, do not have to rely on a favorable club openning lead. Since North holding is J862.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

As was said before 2S was just ..., nevertheless I did hit gold, so lets
make the most out of it.

3S did set up a gf auction, with spade agreed.

You can ask for KCs, you will hear about the King and Queen of spades.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[stansllee]

 P_Marlowe, on 2012-April-10, 05:53, said:

Hi,

As was said before 2S was just ..., nevertheless I did hit gold, so lets
make the most out of it.

3S did set up a gf auction, with spade agreed.

You can ask for KCs, you will hear about the King and Queen of spades.

With kind regards
Marlowe

At the table, over partner spade raise, I jump to 5♠ which should let partner know what the trump suit is going to be for the slam. I don't understand why i failured to dance the keycard toy.

[P_Marlowe]

 stansllee, on 2012-April-10, 06:42, said:

At the table, over partner spade raise, I jump to 5♠ which should let partner know what the trump suit is going to be for the slam. I don't understand why i failured to dance the keycard toy.

You wanted to go scientific.

The problem with 5S is, that

it may mean different thing to different peoble, ... and some may play it as NF,
as a quantitative invite.

Holding 20HCP oppossite a opener, with at least a partial fit, I am not stopping
below slam, even with the heart shortagte, which is nothing to cheer about.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

 Cyberyeti, on 2012-April-10, 03:19, said:

6♠ is actually pretty good, trump lead, win 10, 3 rounds of diamonds, AK♣ and ruff one low, ace of hearts and if this stands up you have 8 tricks in the bag and can cross ruff the AKQJ of trumps.

It could easily be no play with pretty much the same auction though with other slams solid.

Yes and you need three rounds of Ds to stand up.and the third club not to be overruffed. A better slam is actually 6C, simply because you have the AKJT. It is unfortunate that clubs don't break 4-4. Even then you can make 6C provided you don't get a H lead and provided you cash the AK and guess to play low on the third C.
The op is delusional and is posting nonsense in a futile attempt to show how clever he thinks he is.

[the hog]

 stansllee, on 2012-April-10, 03:52, said:

Good point! Treat 2NT as if it were a new suit, this is very simple and extremely handy and I have been playing it ever since 1990, but only with friend.

1H - 2C
2H - 2NT
3S - ??

Your op said 2/1 almost gf. Make up your mind.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

 stansllee, on 2012-April-10, 00:13, said:

The hands are:

---

My special system for 1H openers and a 2/1 GF response ( and contains an "idiotic" 2S!-ask ):

1H - 2C!
2H! ( minimum opener, may have 4 cards ♠ ) - 2S! ( asks )
??
... 2NT = no 4s
... 3C = 4 5 3 1
... 3D = 4 5 1 3
... 3H = 4 6+, ergo not many cards in the minors
... 3S = 4 5 2 2

After:
3H - 3NT

[the hog]

 TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-April-10, 20:24, said:

My special system for 1H openers and a 2/1 GF response ( and contains an "idiotic" 2S!-ask ):

1H - 2C!
2H! ( minimum opener, may have 4 cards ♠ ) - 2S! ( asks )
??
... 2NT = no 4s
... 3C = 4 5 3 1
... 3D = 4 5 1 3
... 3H = 4 6+
... 3S = 4 5 2 2

After:
3H - 3NT

This is not idiotic, Don. This is a specialised relay designed to find out more. Btw how can your parner show 4Ds in your structure.?
Surely after
1H 2C
you would rebid 2H with Ax AKQJxx xxxx x
or similar.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

 the hog, on 2012-April-10, 23:58, said:

Surely after:
1H 2C
you would rebid 2H with Ax AKQJxx xxxx x
or similar.

2H! ( minimum ) - 2S! ( asks )
2NT! ( no 4s ) - 3D ( natural )
??
.. Now Opener can either show extra Ht length ( 3H ) or 4+ card Diam support ( 3D ).
With that stellar Ht suit, one might go with 3H, but the Ht suit will be good for discards with Diam as trump:
4D

[Cyberyeti]

 the hog, on 2012-April-10, 18:03, said:

Yes and you need three rounds of Ds to stand up.and the third club not to be overruffed. A better slam is actually 6C, simply because you have the AKJT. It is unfortunate that clubs don't break 4-4. Even then you can make 6C provided you don't get a H lead and provided you cash the AK and guess to play low on the third C.
The op is delusional and is posting nonsense in a futile attempt to show how clever he thinks he is.

6♠ is I think better than 6♣, it will also make if the Q♣ drops singleton or doubleton if a diamond is not led. It's not practical to bid, and it's unfortunate that 6N will almost certainly get the required squeeze broken up due to the entry position. 6♣ I don't think is biddable either, but is also not bad, given that a heart lead is unlikely if they're splitting and barring that, ♣98x will see you home too.

There are also positions where one hand is 5134 and 6♣ goes off on a spade ruff or heart trump promotion depending on who had Q♣ but 6♠ makes.

6♠ is around 50% with double dummy defence by my estimation, 6♣ is not close to that double dummy (on a heart lead you need clubs 4-4 and no ruff), and not that close in practice.

[aguahombre]

IMO, this thread went south when OP claimed 2/1 was "almost" game force, and then people contributed their special treatments which require 2/1 to be game force.

With the given agreements, it is probably best if responder just takes the bull by the horns and blasts to 6NT after first hoping something informative might happen when he bids 2C.

[CSGibson]

In what circumstances is the 2/1 not game forcing? If it's only when rebidding the minor suit (after opener has failed to force) then I think 2N is an obvious rebid instead of 2♠. If 2N would be non-forcing, I'd go with 3♦. Having been dropped in this auction, I'd probably bid 5N as choice of slams, just to give an opportunity for partner to bid 6♣ with Qx or something.

[rmnka447]

If by 2/1 almost game forcing you mean 2/1 game forcing except when responder rebids the 2/1 suit, then I vote for 3 ♦ after the 2 ♥ rebid.

Every time 2/1 responder bids a new suit, it shows added values for responder's hand.

So 3 ♦ is a very descriptive bid. Additionally, it may bring a ♦ fit to light.

[rhm]

 Cyberyeti, on 2012-April-10, 03:19, said:

6♠ is actually pretty good, trump lead, win 10, 3 rounds of diamonds, AK♣ and ruff one low, ace of hearts and if this stands up you have 8 tricks in the bag and can cross ruff the AKQJ of trumps.

It could easily be no play with pretty much the same auction though with other slams solid.

I would bet all my money when the bidding starts that way that 6♠ is a better contract than 6NT if opener shows 2 key cards and the ♠Q.
It is not like 6NT is going to run away should opener deny those key cards. Continue with 4NT over 3♠ to find out.

1♥-2♣
2♠-3♠
4NT-5♠
5NT-6♠ (no ♣Q, no red suit king)
Pass

The problem for me is how to stay out of 7♠ at IMPs, because when 6NT makes, 7♠ is probably on too. (unless spades break 5-1)
At pairs I would not risk 7♠, since 6♠+1 beats 6NT.

I like 2♠ (assuming East holds ♠AJT), but then I like creative thinkers at this game.

Rainer Herrmann

[the hog]

"I like 2♠ (assuming East holds ♠AJT), but then I like creative thinkers at this game."

Does that mean those who can't bid?

[y66]

 rhm, on 2012-April-12, 03:56, said:

I like 2♠ (assuming East holds ♠AJT), but then I like creative thinkers at this game.
Rainer Herrmann

I prefer to have at least ♠KQ9x when bidding 2♠ on that assumption.

[stansllee]

 rhm, on 2012-April-12, 03:56, said:

I would bet all my money when the bidding starts that way that 6♠ is a better contract than 6NT if opener shows 2 key cards and the ♠Q.
It is not like 6NT is going to run away should opener deny those key cards. Continue with 4NT over 3♠ to find out.

1♥-2♣
2♠-3♠
4NT-5♠
5NT-6♠ (no ♣Q, no red suit king)
Pass

The problem for me is how to stay out of 7♠ at IMPs, because when 6NT makes, 7♠ is probably on too. (unless spades break 5-1)
At pairs I would not risk 7♠, since 6♠+1 beats 6NT.

I like 2♠ (assuming East holds ♠AJT), but then I like creative thinkers at this game.

Rainer Herrmann

Thank you, you and I are few and rare species！ My real holding is ♠A107, my right hand oppo ♠J862.

[the hog]

 stansllee, on 2012-April-12, 04:35, said:

Thank you, you and I are few and rare species！ My real holding is ♠A107, my right hand oppo ♠J862.

Not really a rare species, Stan. There are a lot of players, not just on BBO who cannot bid.

[rhm]

 the hog, on 2012-April-12, 22:26, said:

Not really a rare species, Stan. There are a lot of players, not just on BBO who cannot bid.

And of course "the hog" is the final authority to decide who can and who can not

Rainer Herrmann

[han]

I don't know the system, and even though I don't like 2S very much, I think that 3D is a far worse call. It simply takes up too much room. If partner rebids 3NT you know exactly nothing about his hand. I prefer 2NT (assuming that it is forcing in this system). With a hand as strong as the one given we should give partner as much room as possible, so I guess that's a good case for bidding 2S.

Hog, I've told you before, don't comment on play issues!