[Quartic]

This hand, we had a misunderstanding of a double:

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North thought the double was showing a good hand with no clear direction, whereas South thought it was penalties. 3♥ made 9 tricks on our defence.

[wyman]

Takeout IMO. South needs only look at his hand and the auction to know this. North didn't XX [the 'real' reason this is t/o], and how many hearts exactly does he expect partner to hold?

[Zelandakh]

Obviously it depends on your agreements. I think DSIP would be a reasonable default here though. Out of interest, why did North not redouble on the first round?

[Codo]

I have the meta agreement that any unclear double is take out. I like this rule, it helps to avoid these misunderstandings.

And here: East freely bids hearts, West raised. They should have 9-10 hearts. This makes a penalty double impossible.

[ahydra]

I wouldn't mind passing that rubbish with South on the second round. Then X of 3H is clearly takeout. Here it's rather unclear but looking at the heart holding in South he can probably divine that N has probably got the minors.

ahydra

[gnasher]

I think it's best played as a "good hand with no clear direction", but it's also reasonable to play penalty doubles when you're opposite a defined one-suiter.

South might pass a "good hand with no clear direction" double anyway: from his point of view 3NT doesn't look attractive. It looks like 3♥ should go down on normal defence - after two rounds of clubs, declarer has to draw trumps to avoid a promotion, but now he has only eight tricks.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2012-March-27, 05:58

[Fluffy]

Codo, on 2012-March-27, 02:58, said:

I have the meta agreement that any unclear double is take out.

My meta agreement is that if the bid is unclear then you better have back up for any meaning I can think of it

[HighLow21]

(1) Why did North not redouble originally?
(2) Given that he didn't redouble and it came back around to him, why is he not worth 4♣ now? Partner cannot know about the club length or the 12 working HCP.
(3) Where on earth did they find 9 tricks in 3♥?

[sfi]

HighLow21, on 2012-March-27, 12:51, said:

(1) Why did North not redouble originally?
(2) Given that he didn't redouble and it came back around to him, why is he not worth 4♣ now? Partner cannot know about the club length or the 12 working HCP.
(3) Where on earth did they find 9 tricks in 3♥?

(1) Maybe 2C is forcing and redouble shows more scattered values. It's not an uncommon agreement.
(2) Because a takeout double suggests all that plus 4 diamonds.
(3) It's not clear how, but the defence doesn't need to help declarer all that much to give up a ninth trick.

[Quartic]

sfi, on 2012-March-27, 16:07, said:

(1) Maybe 2C is forcing and redouble shows more scattered values. It's not an uncommon agreement.
(2) Because a takeout double suggests all that plus 4 diamonds.
(3) It's not clear how, but the defence doesn't need to help declarer all that much to give up a ninth trick.

Pretty much. I would certainly have redoubled with 4 hearts (maybe with only 3), but here I thought it more important to show my club suit. I did double because I wanted to bring diamonds into the picture. I can't remember where we dropped a trick.

[rmnka447]

The meaning of the double revolves around the meaning of North's 2 ♣ bid.

If 2 ♣ is non forcing, constructive, then the Dbl of 3 ♥ shows extra values and a willingness to compete further.

If the 2 ♣ bid is forcing and shows about opening values, then the Dbl is strictly penalty. There's no need to show willingness to compete further as South should know North has at least the values to do so. So North's choices for calls are pass, raise partner's suit, or bid another suit.

[Quartic]

rmnka447, on 2012-March-27, 20:27, said:

The meaning of the double revolves around the meaning of North's 2 ♣ bid.

If 2 ♣ is non forcing, constructive, then the Dbl of 3 ♥ shows extra values and a willingness to compete further.

If the 2 ♣ bid is forcing and shows about opening values, then the Dbl is strictly penalty. There's no need to show willingness to compete further as South should know North has at least the values to do so. So North's choices for calls are pass, raise partner's suit, or bid another suit.

2♣ is forcing for 1 round (not GF), usually 10+ points and 5+♣.