[broze]

Here us one of those hands where most pairs will end up in the correct contract, but will arrive there in all manner of ways, some of them less than accurate. How would you do it? North deals.

EDIT: I'm most interested in your 2/1 methods but other approaches welcome.

---

[mike777]

broze, on 2012-February-26, 15:33, said:

Here us one of those hands where most pairs will end up in the correct contract, but will arrive there in all manner of ways, some of them less than accurate. How would you do it? North deals.

EDIT: I'm most interested in your 2/1 methods but other approaches welcome.

---

1s=2nt!
3h=5c
5h=6s

2nt is strong s raise
3h shows a void somewhere
5c=exclusion bw
5h=1-4


risks being off AK of h and they cash them.

---


1s=2d
2s(6)=3s
4h=4nt
5d=5h
6h=6s

If I am smart enough to start with 2d then you hope you dont lose 2h if KH and hope you dont lose a spade if AH and QS.


4h denys club cue...
5d=1-4
5h queen ask
6h=kh, qs deny kc and kd.

in other words not really that accurate.

[Cyberyeti]

1♠-3♦(one suited rock crusher or 5 good ♦ 4 decent ♠ opening hand GF
3♠-4♣(the two suited version, club control)
4♥-5♣
6♠

[mike777]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-February-26, 15:56, said:

1♠-3♦(one suited rock crusher or 5 good ♦ 4 decent ♠ opening hand GF
3♠-4♣(the two suited version, club control)
4♥-5♣
6♠

Of course you have the same worries here with this auction.

I think just at some point you have to assume pard will not have a worse case hand.

[broze]

mike777, on 2012-February-26, 15:43, said:

risks being off AK of h and they cash them.

Yes, the trouble I would have with this hand is getting a ♥ cue from partner.

mike777, on 2012-February-26, 15:43, said:

1s=2d
2s(6)=3s
4h=4nt
5d=5h
6h=6s

This is closer to how I'd bid it. Although, instead of North's 4♥ bid why does he not bid 4♦ cuing his void? And what would it mean if he did?

Cyberyeti, on 2012-February-26, 15:56, said:

1♠-3♦(one suited rock crusher or 5 good ♦ 4 decent ♠ opening hand GF
3♠-4♣(the two suited version, club control)
4♥-5♣
6♠

Same question regarding the 4♥ bid in this auction. I like this treatment of 3♦ though.

[Quartic]

broze, on 2012-February-26, 16:16, said:

Although, instead of North's 4♥ bid why does he not bid 4♦ cuing his void? And what would it mean if he did?

Cyberyeti, on 2012-February-26, 15:56, said:

1♠-3♦(one suited rock crusher or 5 good ♦ 4 decent ♠ opening hand GF
3♠-4♣(the two suited version, club control)
4♥-5♣
6♠

Same question regarding the 4♥ bid in this auction. I like this treatment of 3♦ though.

In the strong jump-shift auction, for me a cue of 4♦ would promise the A or K. I've been burnt before by cueing shortage in partner's suit.

[mike777]

I seldom cue shortage if can que something else first...and never in pards bid suit.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Mike777 :
....In your trump Q-ask auction using 5H, the reply is 5NT = ♠Q + ♥K :

5 trump = no trump-Q
6 trump = trump-Q, no outside king
5 or 6 of suit = trump-Q and cheapest king
5N = trump-Q and king of asking suit is the cheapest king
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

broze :
As Mike777 said, you can't cue a void ( or singleton ) in partner's bid ( natural ) suit .

[mike777]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-February-26, 18:24, said:

Mike777 :
....In your trump Q-ask auction using 5H, the reply is 5NT = ♠Q + ♥K :

5 trump = no trump-Q
6 trump = trump-Q, no outside king
5 or 6 of suit = trump-Q and cheapest king
5N = trump-Q and king of asking suit is the cheapest king
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

broze :
As Mike777 said, you can't cue a void ( or singleton ) in partner's bid ( natural ) suit .

ay but this way I get to deny any other kings. but ya 5nt is fine it just does not deny any other kings.

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2012-February-26, 16:01, said:

Of course you have the same worries here with this auction.

I think just at some point you have to assume pard will not have a worse case hand.

I'm not sure I do have the same worries:

To be precise, partner has shown at least:

4 spades, given what we're looking at, Axxx - Minimum for the 3♦ bid is 4 to one of top 3
5 diamonds, worst case KJ10xx - Minimum for 3♦ is 5 to one of top 2 and 3 of top 5
club void and another 4 points or stiff A or AK with or without others

Can a slam be bad here ? Absolute worst case is Axxx, xxx, KJ10xx, A which is on the ace of hearts onside or A♦ dropping fast, add ♥J or make K♦ the A or a 5th ♠ or a 6th ♦ and it's cold, J♠ makes it pretty good too.

My 4♥ cue has removed any worries partner might have in bidding 5♣.

Sign me up for a "first cue is never short in partner's suit unless stiff A or K in this type of auction".

[Zelandakh]

1♠ = 10-17, 5+ spades, unbal
... - 3♣ = GF raise, 4+ spades (equivalent of Jacoby)
3♦ = min with shortage
... - 3♠ = starts a cue auction (cues are more important than partner's shortage)
4♣ = serious, denies a club control
... - 4♦ = have you got a diamond control? (we can afford this since if no diamond control there must be a heart shortage)
4NT = controls in both red suits with a void
... - 5♣ = which void?
5♦ = diamond void
... - 5♥ = key cards?
5NT = 1 or 4
... - 6♠ looks reasonable. The same auction could be used in a 2/1 setting too but there I think I would be more likely to start with a diamond bid. This is a bit of an old chestnut on these forums, strong hands with support and a good suit. Each one is different and categorising what the best approach is for different hand types is not easy.

[rhm]

1♠-2♦
2♠-5♣
5♦-5♥
6♥-6♠

5♣: Exclusion keycard Blackwood
5♦: 1 keycard
5♥: ♠Q?
6♥: yes, and the ♥K

I admit I would also reach 6♠ if the ♥K would have been the ♣K, but if the ♥K would have been the ♥A, I would reach 7♠ with confidence.

Rainer Herrmann

[Cyberyeti]

rhm, on 2012-February-27, 04:46, said:

1♠-2♦
2♠-5♣
5♦-5♥
6♥-6♠

5♣: Exclusion keycard Blackwood
5♦: 1 keycard
5♥: ♠Q?
6♥: yes, and the ♥K

I admit I would also reach 6♠ if the ♥K would have been the ♣K, but if the ♥K would have been the ♥A, I would reach 7♠ with confidence.

Rainer Herrmann

Horrible auction, where do you finish opposite KQxxxx, xxx, x, AKQ, you've already lost the board as soon as you bid 5♣.

[Codo]

1 ♠ 2 ♦
2 ♠ 4 ♣ (Splinter with spade support)
4 ♥ 4 ♠ (Chicane? yes)
4 NT 5 ♥ (KC 2)
6♠


1 ♠ 2 NT (GF)
3♦ 3♠ (shortness, asking for cues)
4 ♥ 4 NT (Heart control, RCKB)
5♣ 5 ♦ (1, queen?)
5 NT 6 ♠ (SQ and HK)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

broze, on 2012-February-26, 15:33, said:

Here us one of those hands where most pairs will end up in the correct contract, but will arrive there in all manner of ways, some of them less than accurate. How would you do it? North deals.

EDIT: I'm most interested in your 2/1 methods but other approaches welcome.

---

Here is some unusual "science" :
Some splinter systems show singletons at the 3-level ( such as modified Bergen ) which allows showing VOIDs at the 4-level.
North can better take control ( since no 2 quick losers in any side suit ) with a rare VOID-showing jump-bid of his own:

1S - 4C! ( VOID splinter for ♠ as trump )
5D! ( Exclusion RKC ) - 5S ( 2nd step = 1 key card, excluding the ♦ Ace )
6S

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-February-27, 10:05, said:

Here is some unusual "science" :
Some splinter systems show singletons at the 3-level ( such as modified Bergen ) which allows showing VOIDs at the 4-level.
North can better take control ( since no 2 quick losers in any side suit ) with a rare VOID-showing jump-bid of his own:

1S - 4C! ( VOID splinter for ♠ as trump )
5D! ( Exclusion RKC ) - 5S ( 2nd step = 1 key card, excluding the ♦ Ace )
6S

I thought of a similar auction using my 2-way splinter gadget but decided it was too risky that the bidding might die in 4♠, not to mention the heart problem...

1♠ - 2NT (mini-splinter or in-between splinter)
3♣ - 3NT (in-between strength, side void)
4♣ - 4♠ (club void)
5♦ - 5♠ (exclusion sequence)
6♠

I don't think this auction is as good as the Jacoby-ish one though.

[Cyberyeti]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-February-27, 10:05, said:

Here is some unusual "science" :
Some splinter systems show singletons at the 3-level ( such as modified Bergen ) which allows showing VOIDs at the 4-level.
North can better take control ( since no 2 quick losers in any side suit ) with a rare VOID-showing jump-bid of his own:

1S - 4C! ( VOID splinter for ♠ as trump )
5D! ( Exclusion RKC ) - 5S ( 2nd step = 1 key card, excluding the ♦ Ace )
6S

We do this, but I would choose to show the diamond suit first. Our method is to show a minimum hand or give exclusion responses to the void splinter. So 1♠-4♣-4♥(1/4) and now this is a dangerous auction as you may not even be making 5, hence showing a good diamond suit is better for us and finding out about the heart guard.

[AyunuS]

1♠-2♦
2♠-4♣ (splinter)
5♦ if that is agreed to be exclusion blackwood - 5♠ 1 keycard
6♠-pass

[kenrexford]

1♠-2♦

2♠-3♠

4♥(courtesy cue, heart control, with no club control and none of the top three diamonds)-4NT(no need for exclusion when partner denied a club control)

5♦(one -- he was non-serious)-5♥(chicken bid)

6♦(shortness, as denied an honor)-6♠(who cares about diamond shortness???)