[phil_20686]

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What would you do?

Is my judgement off centre here too?

[JLOGIC]

Meh I'd probably pass, not enough defense if partner sits the X which he often will.

It does matter how takeout oriented vs how cards oriented it is, for instance with one partner (Kevin) I would not consider doubling, and with another (Joe) I would strongly consider it since Joe plays it as just takeout and very shape oriented, and Kevin plays it as more cards oriented and thus passes more.

[phil_20686]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-February-06, 12:00, said:

Meh I'd probably pass, not enough defense if partner sits the X which he often will.

Hehe. Feel like this is a Gotcha moment. Re doing different things at the table and on the forums. Care to look again?

[wyman]

I want to act, but r/w I can't do it.

[JLOGIC]

I don't know what you mean?

Edit: are you referring to me editing my post 1 second after I posted? I often do that.

[pooltuna]

 phil_20686, on 2012-February-06, 12:01, said:

Hehe. Feel like this is a Gotcha moment. Re doing different things at the table and on the forums. Care to look again?

this is a near auto pass aka "sometimes preempts work"

[phil_20686]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-February-06, 12:03, said:

I don't know what you mean?

Its board 2 of the BB bowl final, either set one or two cannot work out the notation. You doubled.

PS ill admit I posted it deliberately to lure you in. Was pretty sure this was an auto pass, thought if I put it up and put my vote in as double you would put in a vote for pass. Was disappointed you didnt think it was an auto pass.

Was hoping for a Pass LOL, butyou dont seem to do them any more

[JLOGIC]

 phil_20686, on 2012-February-06, 12:04, said:

Its board 2 of the BB bowl final, either set one or two cannot work out the notation. You doubled.

Quote

"and with another (Joe) I would strongly consider it since Joe plays it as just takeout and very shape oriented"

You got me!

[phil_20686]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-February-06, 12:06, said:

You got me!

it was better before you edited.

[JLOGIC]

I mean, I don't understand why people try to "get" me. I am not saying that I make no errors in real life. I do not even know if I would classify doubling as an error when your agreements are that you would not X with a hand like Kx AQxx KJxx Qxx and you would double on a hand slightly stronger than this automatically.

I am happy you can feel content that you got me when I said

"Meh"
"I would probably pass"
"With one partner (Joe) I would strongly consider double."

I mean jeez, obviously I indicated that I would always pass here. Naturally I do not consider it a close decision that might come down to things like how aggressive my opponents preempts are (dutch people), or how often partner pulls the double, or Joe's non standard way of playing these doubles. I mean, look at the hand he actually pulled with.

If you actually think I am posting far differently than I play in real life then lol, ok. If you are just butthurt because I tried to give some helpful advice in another thread, that's pretty petty. But good job, you got me!

[JLOGIC]

 phil_20686, on 2012-February-06, 12:10, said:

it was better before you edited.

Yes, I only said "meh" and "I'd probably pass" and my stated reason was partner will pass the double too often, as you did not specify non standard agreements/behaviors for how often partner pulls the double. Did you see what my partner bid with over the double? Do you think most people behave that way? Do you not think that I know my partner pulls the double with hands like that and thus adjust my doubles that way?

It would be similar to saying you hold a strong NT with Kx of spades, do you double 4S? Of course my answer would probably be "Yes" but if I was playing with Joe my answer would probably be "no"

[JLOGIC]

 phil_20686, on 2012-February-06, 12:04, said:

PS ill admit I posted it deliberately to lure you in. Was pretty sure this was an auto pass, thought if I put it up and put my vote in as double you would put in a vote for pass. Was disappointed you didnt think it was an auto pass.

Was hoping for a Pass LOL, butyou dont seem to do them any more

What is the point of doing this?
Do you want me to feel bad for making a bid that didn't work in the biggest match of my life (I think it cost 2 imps?).
Do you think that I just make things up on the forums that I would never do in real life?
Are you butt hurt because I offered you constructive advice in the other thread? Don't worry, I won't do that again. I was actually trying to be nice.
Do you still think you "got" me? "I would probably pass" implies that some of the time I would bid. "Meh" implies that I do not feel very strongly.

I'm surprised there is any chance you'd think that I thought this was an auto pass if I doubled in the ***** finals of the bermuda bowl. Do you think I just got bored and felt like bidding?

[phil_20686]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-February-06, 12:12, said:

If you actually think I am posting far differently than I play in real life then lol, ok. If you are just butthurt because I tried to give some helpful advice in another thread, that's pretty petty. But good job, you got me!

Was just hoping for some classic humour J. Calm down!

[JLOGIC]

Your behavior was malicious and in bad taste. It was no doubt driven by what happened in the other thread. When people maliciously try to humiliate or embarrass you and imply that you make things up, would you not care? Trying to have humor at someone elses expense because you are angry with them is just childish. Good try!

[Phil]

TOTY

[rogerclee]

phil_20686, it's obvious you are good and talented, I don't know why you did this. Posting it is in slightly bad taste, exclaiming you got him when it's obvious to everyone else that you only validated his point makes you look like an idiot.

[nige1]

phil_20686 asks "What would you do? Is my judgement off centre here too?"


IMO Pass = 10, Double = 7, 4N = 4
The relative merits of options do depend on partner's predillections. Also, a mixed strategy is appropriate to some Bridge situations, although perhaps not here.

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[billw55]

We certainly want to have active internationals and other very strong players posting in the forums. Baiting them or joking at their expense is not an incentive for their continued participation. In short, bad idea.

Oh by the way I pass. Unlike Justin, I have no partners with whom this would work. Although sometimes I wish I did.

[phil_20686]

 rogerclee, on 2012-February-06, 13:03, said:

phil_20686, it's obvious you are good and talented, I don't know why you did this. Posting it is in slightly bad taste, exclaiming you got him when it's obvious to everyone else that you only validated his point makes you look like an idiot.

I thought this hand was interesting for a number of reasons.

(1) For Justin to double here is far from standard. When a WC player does something far from standard that is interesting, doubly so when he posts regularly in this forum.

(2) In the context of the other thread, I was suggesting that most errors are errors of execution, rather than a failure to properly analyse, on this hand I was fairly sure that Justin would suggest that pass is best. If he did then this hand would be the very definition of an error of execution, when what you think is best is different from the action one actually took at the table. This would support the point I was making in the other thread. If he did not that is also interesting, as most top players would pass immediately.

(3) In the context of the other thread, I think this is exactly the kind of hand where players are tempted into errors at the table, despite knowing it to be inferior. It is tempting to double. I for one am pretty sure that I would auto double at the table, despite being pretty sure its an inferior action. I'm not sure totally why this happens. I doubt I am alone. The other cases where I find my self commonly at fault with my own better judgement is in penalty doubles, where I make fewer at the table than I advocate in problems, and weakish distributional hands, where I tend to over complete. I have made the error of doubling too light here multiple times, and while it doesnt cost much that often, its annoying.

[nige1]

A harmless practical joke and JLOGIC emerges, as usual, unscathed, smelling of roses