[Fluffy]

♠A8
♥AK74
♦KQ72
♣Q72


all vul, MPs, partner deals

1 ♦ - ( 1 ♥ ) -pass-(pass)
double-(pass)-pass-( 1 ♠)
pass -(pass)-??


Many of you will probably disagree with passing 1♥, but just in general, how do you continue after this?

[ArtK78]

My, hasn't this become a difficult auction!

I don't see what you can do immediately other than bid 2♠. Partner will take you for a strong hand with hearts, which is not too far off base. You can support diamonds later and see where it all leads.

If partner bids NT, you can make a quantitative invite. Normally, when all of the high card strength is concentrated in one opponent's hand, the hand becomes easier to play. That may still be true, but your hand contains little in the way of positional strength.

There may be a spade weakness for NT purposes. Hopefully we can sort everything out.

[mike777]

I understand 2s here but i will try x.


maybe pard is:


Jxx...x.....Axxxx...AKxx

and we can beat it 3 at mp.

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2011-December-20, 09:53, said:

I understand 2s here but i will try x.


maybe pard is:


Jxx...x.....Axxxx...AKxx

and we can beat it 3 at mp.

Against a cold 6♦, make the J♠ the J♣ it's a cold 7♦.

2♠ for me although I wouldn't have passed first or second time.

[MrAce]

Fluffy, on 2011-December-20, 09:21, said:

♠A8
♥AK74
♦KQ72
♣Q72


all vul, MPs, partner deals

1 ♦ - ( 1 ♥ ) -pass-(pass)
double-(pass)-pass-( 1 ♠)
pass -(pass)-??


Many of you will probably disagree with passing 1♥, but just in general, how do you continue after this?

Trap pass previous round is not a matter of agreement or disagreement. This is not a matter of style either, this is plain terrible judgement. Why would someone take the risk of 1♥ being passed out when opener holds 3 of them and looking at 18 hcp in his hand as responder ?

I would cue now.

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on 2011-December-20, 09:21, said:

Many of you will probably disagree with passing 1♥, but just in general, how do you continue after this?

MrAce, on 2011-December-20, 10:14, said:

Trap pass previous round is not a matter of agreement or disagreement. This is not a matter of style either, this is plain terrible highly questionable judgement. Why would someone take the risk of 1♥ being passed out when opener holds 3 of them and looking at 18 hcp in his hand as responder ?

I would cue now.

Two profound expressions of the obvious; followed by a good answer to the question about what to do to try and fix it. Not sure we can fix it, but 2S is a start.

[Fluffy]

over 2♠ partner will bid 2NT

[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2011-December-20, 11:16, said:

over 2♠ partner will bid 2NT

3♦ forcing now.

[ArtK78]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-December-20, 11:33, said:

3♦ forcing now.

+1. If partner bids 3NT over 3♦, bit 4NT.

[Fluffy]

partner had ♠Kxx ♥Qx ♦108xx ♣AKxx

diamonds 3-2 with ♦A onside meant an easy ride to 12 tricks but not sure if I should play it. 1♠X -> 500 (bottom), 1♥X->1100 (almost top)

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on 2011-December-20, 11:16, said:

over 2♠ partner will bid 2NT

Cyberyeti, on 2011-December-20, 11:33, said:

3♦ forcing now.

That's my problem with the original trap pass of 1H. Can we really be sure that a hand which wanted to defend 1HX opposite a likely singleton and which was willing to take the chance of defending 1H undoubled can now actually support diamonds in a force and expect opener to believe we have 4+ of them?

[mike777]

6d feels a bit lucky as there is no h ruff. no 6-1 h break onthis auction.

I guess my x of 1s deserved its bottom for its gamble. I understood 2s.

good discussion of the trap pass in the first place.

[Cyberyeti]

aguahombre, on 2011-December-20, 12:32, said:

That's my problem with the original trap pass of 1H. Can we really be sure that a hand which wanted to defend 1HX opposite a likely singleton and which was willing to take the chance of defending 1H undoubled can now actually support diamonds in a force and expect opener to believe we have 4+ of them?

No, but when he bids 3N you have to bid 4♦, then he will.

[JLOGIC]

Fluffy, on 2011-December-20, 12:15, said:

partner had ♠Kxx ♥Qx ♦108xx ♣AKxx

diamonds 3-2 with ♦A onside meant an easy ride to 12 tricks but not sure if I should play it. 1♠X -> 500 (bottom), 1♥X->1100 (almost top)

How about 1H undoubled? Does that score well?

Quote

Trap pass previous round is not a matter of agreement or disagreement. This is not a matter of style either, this is plain terrible judgement. Why would someone take the risk of 1♥ being passed out when opener holds 3 of them and looking at 18 hcp in his hand as responder ?

I would cue now.

Jesus this.

[mikeh]

I'm late to the thread, so have already seen the full hand. I can't imagine reopening with opener's hand.....that double is almost as horrible as the pass over 1♥.

I'd surely hope that N passed in tempo....if any N twitched against me, then passed, and dealer doubled, we'd be dealing with the director once I saw the hands...and I don't call directors often on hesitations.

As it is, I agree with the 2♠ bid given the conditions of contest, and thereafter, 3♦ over 2N has to be forcing. I'd expect partner to play me for longer and stronger hearts (tho his holding the Q would suggest otherwise...it's not a card he rates to hold), and my 2♠ was a gf....I'd have bid 3♦ in reopening position rather than 2♠ if I didn't want to force.

But then I'd subside over 3N. In general, AKxx is a good holding but when the auction (incorrectly) tells us that partner has at most xx and often x in the suit, we should be down-grading. And partner's signing off over the strongest diamond raise we can now make suggests that he is minimum....he has bid exactly as if he has a 12-14 count 4=1=4=4=, and this hand will play for less than its combined hcp would warrant. It's not that I think 4N will be in jeopardy, but that he will bid too much on maximums, and for the wrong reason.

[JLOGIC]

mikeh, on 2011-December-20, 15:00, said:

I'd surely hope that N passed in tempo....if any N twitched against me, then passed, and dealer doubled, we'd be dealing with the director once I saw the hands...and I don't call directors often on hesitations.

Meh, in fairness it is a really common thing to do to reopen with that hand (though I agree with you that it is quite bad and imo an error). People just don't tend to sell out to 1H with a doubleton heart. I actually think I learned through Freds postings here that you should pass with Hx and a weak NT hand type (esp all vul, esp with only 3 spades).

[jmcw]

Lotta votes for 2♠, can't say I disagree, but what would 2♥ be?
Surely not an attempt to play!, is it revealing a possible psyche?

[gnasher]

jmcw, on 2011-December-20, 17:15, said:

Lotta votes for 2♠, can't say I disagree, but what would 2♥ be?
Surely not an attempt to play!, is it revealing a possible psyche?

It's definitely suggesting hearts as a trump suit. I think it should be non-forcing too - if you had a game-force you could bid 3♥.

[JLOGIC]

jmcw, on 2011-December-20, 17:15, said:

Lotta votes for 2♠, can't say I disagree, but what would 2♥ be?
Surely not an attempt to play!, is it revealing a possible psyche?

Most definitely an attempt to play. You showed good hearts (passing 1H X), then you competed to 2H.

[JLOGIC]

nice crosspost with gnasher