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Defining Doubles - II

Poll: Defining Doubles - II (27 member(s) have cast votes)

Double is?

  1. Takeout for unbid suits (7 votes [25.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.93%

  2. Penalty of x (14 votes [51.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.85%

  3. Takeout for unbid suits if x is major, Penalty if x is a minor (1 votes [3.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  4. Takeout for unbid suits if x is minor, Penalty if x is a major (1 votes [3.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  5. 2 way (look at your own hand and figure out if its penalty or takeout) (4 votes [14.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.81%

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#1 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 08:07

The 2nd in the series.

(1x) - pass - (1N) - pass
pass - double
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#2 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 08:18

I like to play penalty of X. I also like the option of changing the meaning based on whether the opening was in a Major or a minor, if I double 1NT when they don't have the Majors then it's take-out and if they opened in a Major is penalty of that Major (great for exposing a psych). Anyway 1M-1NT-Pa is not a typical sequence as the 1NT is usually forcing.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 08:27

I play as take out given that I play 95% of my f2f hands in match points where it makes a lot more sense this way IMO. But I think 2 way is playable
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#4 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 08:50

Takeout, usually with tolerance for opener's suit.
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#5 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 09:04

It helps to know if we play a gadget. I generally play that a balancing 2♣, over a dying 1N response, is takeout of opener's suit (whatever it may have been) and thus don't need a takeout double here. That frees it up for the penalty, showing length and strength in opener's suit.
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#6 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 09:04

I love 2-way here.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 09:22

View PostFree, on 2011-September-13, 08:50, said:

Takeout, usually with tolerance for opener's suit.

Workable if 1m was the opening bid, since 4X1 with a stiff in the other minor would have been an ugly takeout on the first round. Hanoi5 alluded to this, also. Maybe workable after 1M was opened, if the doubler has specifically short clubs, perhaps (3-4)-4-2 and partner knows that.

Eliminate all hands which should have acted directly, and what is the likelihood that takeout is more frequently useful than penalty? I don't know.

2C takeout of dying NT was popular a long time ago, and still might be used by many people. We abandoned it because it is so rare we want to act now with takeout shape, shortness in opener's suit, and didn't want to act the first time; but it is not as rare that we have 6 clubs over opener's club opening.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-September-13, 09:35

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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 09:57

Mike Lawrence's balancing book says you can play it two-way because pard will very often know what you mean by looking at his own hand.
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#9 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 10:11

One of the treatments / conventions on my "don't play list" is "2♣ takeout over a dead NT". I've never understood what this means.

In the auction presented, its clear enough that 2♣ is 'takeout of 'x''. However, in other other dead NT auctions, its less clear:

1♦ - pass - 1♥ - pass
1N - pass - pass - 2♣

Am I showing, 3, 4 or 5 clubs here?

I much prefer to play DONT bids over dead NT's. It seems we are much better placed to find our best fit.
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-September-13, 10:23

I like to play it as flawed takeout. The flaw might be lack of shape, or the wrong shape.

Likewise, I like to play a delayed 2♣ overcall as a flawed overcall. The flaw is usually an inadequate suit.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-September-14, 03:58

We could go on and define stuff after stuff after stuff... but I would say don't sweat it: reality is more immaginative than theory.
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#12 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-September-15, 18:11

penalty
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