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22 point 3N no long suits to boot!

#1 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 10:07



4 lead run round the the 3-9-T. Plan the play. I will post continuations based on replies.
Wayne Somerville
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#2 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 10:26

trick 2] small to the J
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
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#3 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 10:35

View Postpooltuna, on 2011-August-04, 10:26, said:

trick 2] small to the J


East wins the K and returns a club.
Wayne Somerville
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#4 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 10:40

View Postmanudude03, on 2011-August-04, 10:35, said:

East wins the K and returns a club.


win in dummy and return your other
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
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#5 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 10:43

View Postpooltuna, on 2011-August-04, 10:40, said:

win in dummy and return your other


East plays low, you finessing or going up?
Wayne Somerville
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#6 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 15:09

View Postmanudude03, on 2011-August-04, 10:43, said:

East plays low, you finessing or going up?


going up
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
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#7 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 15:22

Hold on a second... can we discuss the auction please?
OK
bed
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#8 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 15:56

I do not understand the rationale for playing at trick 2. It must be better to play on first. If West has 5 s and East 2, you want to drive out West's entry first.
A spade can probably be taken by either defender and East will be keen to win the first trick for the defense to return his remaining .
Also opponents may switch erroneously to if you lead , while they are very unlikely to switch to if you lead .
So drive out the ace, which might be with West. Low to the jack.

Rainer Herrmann
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#9 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 17:47

View Postpooltuna, on 2011-August-04, 15:09, said:

going up


West will win and play another club (East showing out).

I assume you'd drive out the A now, East would win and return a spade.

View Postjjbrr, on 2011-August-04, 15:22, said:

Hold on a second... can we discuss the auction please?


I opened a 15-17 NT, partner stayman'ed hoping to invite if I had hearts and when I bid 2S, he's kinda forced into 2N now. I decide to accept with my minimum hence this slightly thin 3N :P This was a new partner, hadn't discussed invite philosophy lol.
Wayne Somerville
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#10 User is offline   VM1973 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 17:59

Driving out the Ace of diamonds has to be the first line of play. You get 3 tricks at the cost of 1. As has already been pointed out, attacking spades will surely result in East winning and leading a club. I recommend leading low to the J at trick 2.
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#11 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 18:20

If you play on diamonds first, East wins the second round (West showing doubleton if giving honest count) and returns a club.
Wayne Somerville
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#12 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-August-05, 03:07

View Postmanudude03, on 2011-August-04, 18:20, said:

If you play on diamonds first, East wins the second round (West showing doubleton if giving honest count) and returns a club.

I will unblock a honor from hand on the second , win the return in hand and play a to the jack.
If East wins and returns a third , I am forced to finesse the 8 next.

Rainer Herrmann
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#13 User is offline   VM1973 

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Posted 2011-August-06, 09:16

Apparently East will duck the first diamond. That might be the opportunity to play on spades. My line of play would be more like:

Win the first one in hand, cheaply.
Small to the J winning.
Small spade towards the Q in hand.

If West wins and plays another club when East wins in he won't have a club to return (unless they're 4-3).
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#14 User is offline   jh51 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 20:54

View Postjjbrr, on 2011-August-04, 15:22, said:

Hold on a second... can we discuss the auction please?

I feel the same way. Responder has the worst possible 7HCP I could imagine, and Opener has a minimum. IMO responder should have passed 1NT and opener had no business accepting an invitation. The bidding seems odd to me.
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#15 User is offline   dcohio 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 22:18

K&R gives opener a 14.9 and responder a 5.65

Passing 1NT as north seems obvious, and if you aren't going to decline an invitation on a minimum, why bother using invitational bids? Just blast game every hand
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#16 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 22:43

To be fair each hand has 2 T, none are 4333. Maybe the N hand is a Banzai point player as 13 Banzai points is a perfect invite opposite a strong nt. The S hand is only 22 Banzai though which is minimum, so shouldn't accept by Banzai.
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#17 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2011-August-11, 06:48


Wayne Somerville
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#18 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-August-11, 07:40

We should probably make on this layout, assuming we eschew the strange play of a spade at trick two (or three).

After we've knocked out the diamond, won the club in hand, and played a spade to the jack, what will East do? He won't fancy a heart, so he'll play back either a spade or a diamond. Now we'll have the reasonable line of a spade to the queen, cashing the minors, and then playing spades from the top. That works when 9 is trebleton, of East has K + 9 or AKx.

I know that in theory East could switch to a heart from the king, or not switch to a heart with something like A9xx Jxxx Axx xx. In practice, however, people don't do that sort of thing.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#19 User is offline   VM1973 

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Posted 2011-August-11, 07:56

Well if I had played it...

Win 10 in hand.
J wins.
low spade... I think East should go up with the A and lead back a club, though even if he ducks it doesn't matter because then West wins with K and with no other entries the hand becomes easy.

I count:
2 spades
1 heart
3 diamonds
3 clubs

If East doesn't win the A and if the 9 doesn't fall you have to play West for the J and finesse the 10 as if West has the K he will go up with it and cash his clubs anyway and you're down so no sense leading low to the Q.

Edit: Though you will need to unblock the KQ in order to ensure communication to the dummy in the event you have to fall back on the heart trick.
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