[kgr]

In another topic it was discussed if 1♠ is forcing
(1♦)-1♥-(pass)-1♠
And for a poster this depended on playing transfer advances. How does that work (can you still bid 1♠ nat)?
Note:
I play transfer only to 'between suits' (..called Rubens advances I think):
(1♣)-1♥-(pass)-?
-2♣=xfer ♦
-2♦=xfer ♥ (like a cue)
other bids are natural

[gwnn]

That's how I played them, too.

1♠ and 1NT were natural. I think we played new suits (when bid naturally*) as forcing, but it was not a consequence of Rubens advances.

*e.g. (1♦)-1♥-p-2♣

[whereagles]

Rubens' advances start at the cue-bid and go up to support -1. Example:

1♣ 1♥ pass ??

2♣ = diamonds. Strenght goes from a decent 7 or so up to infinity. Usually denies 3-card heart support.
2♦ = good heart raise (i.e. the same as what the cue would show playing normal methods)

Only these two bids are rotated. Other bids are natural:

1♠ = natural. NF/F1 and 4+/5+ cards depending on agreements
1NT = natural, the usual 8-12 hcp or so
2♠ = natural, whatever you agreed with pard (weak, strong, fit bid, etc..)

Another example:

1♣ 1♠ pass ??

2♣ = diamonds
2♦ = hearts
2♥ = spades
Rest = natural

The advances can apply after a constructive overcall at ANY LEVEL. Actually, the higher the overcall is, the more useful the advances are. Example:

3♦ 3♠ pass ??

4♦ = hearts. Usually either a lot of hearts and weakish hand or a side suit and support of spades
4♥ = decent spade raise, slammish
4♠ = enough for game, no desire to go further

Other bids (3NT, 4♣, etc) are natural.

In competition (i.e. RHO butts-in), you can play that advances are on if the step corresponding to the cue is vacant:

1♣ 1♥ 1♠ ??

transfers ON, but

1♣ 1♥ 2♣ ??

transfers go OFF and normal methods apply.

Finally, I recommend you to ONLY play these methods with a good pard, who is willing to study them. Cases where pard forgets the transfers are overly abundant (speaking from experience here.. lol). Especially if the transfers start higher than the 2-level.

[fromageGB]

whereagles, on 2011-June-02, 04:10, said:

1♣ 1♥ 1♠ ??

transfers ON, but

1♣ 1♥ 2♣ ??

transfers go OFF and normal methods apply.

I play advancer transfers too, but with my transfer partner we play these situations as if we "forget about" the opening bid, and use transfers as if partner had opened and there was an overcall. Transfers up to overcaller's suit. So after 1♣ 1♥ 2♣ ??
X = ♦
♦ = good heart support raise to the 2 level
♥ = poor raise to 2
♠ = natural.

Generally a transfer to the opening suit is inviting partner to bid NT if he has opener's suit guarded. So we "remember" it then.

[Phil]

Transfer advances can be problematic. Here's a possible scenario for this auction:

1♠; natural (forcing or not, your choice)
1N = clubs
2♣ = 'transfer' to the cue bid; thus a limit raise
2♦ = constructive raise
2♥ = garbage raise

In this setup, you give up a natural 1N.

You can switch things around, but you are going to give up something. You can throw out the garbage raise, and make 2♦ a limit raise. 1♠ / 1N and 2♣ can be natural, or 1♠ = NT, 1N = clubs and 2♣ = spades.

After all of these gyrations I think its better not to play transfers.

[whereagles]

Phil, NT bids are usually kept of the scheme. That makes it a lot more playable.

[whereagles]

fromageGB, on 2011-June-02, 10:53, said:

I play advancer transfers too, but with my transfer partner we play these situations as if we "forget about" the opening bid, and use transfers as if partner had opened and there was an overcall. Transfers up to overcaller's suit. So after 1♣ 1♥ 2♣ ??
X = ♦
♦ = good heart support raise to the 2 level
♥ = poor raise to 2
♠ = natural.

Generally a transfer to the opening suit is inviting partner to bid NT if he has opener's suit guarded. So we "remember" it then.

I once tried a scheme similar to the one you mentioned, i.e. "pretend partner opened and there was an overcall" but gave up on it because it was way too hard to remember all the stuff. Tecnically it had merit, but it was really too hard in practice to keep it in our RAM

[fromageGB]

whereagles, on 2011-June-04, 05:30, said:

I once tried a scheme similar to the one you mentioned, i.e. "pretend partner opened and there was an overcall" but gave up on it because it was way too hard to remember all the stuff. Tecnically it had merit, but it was really too hard in practice to keep it in our RAM

That's strange, because I am not good at remembering things, can't get my head round complicated sequences, but tranfers are easy. All our bids in competition are transfers at low levels, so it would be difficult to remember anything else :

• transfer walsh with no competition - from 1♦ to 1♠ inclusive
  
• still transfer walsh after a one level overcall - from double to 1NT (the latter only over spades)
  
• transfers after a NT overcall - from double to one under opener
  
• transfers after our major opening has been overcalled - from double to one under opener
  
• transfers after a jump overcall, from double to one under opener
  
• rubens transfer advances after our overcall and third seat pass, from their suit to one under partner's
  
• transfer advances after our overcall and third seat bid, from double to one under partner's

I guess if you use transfers in all competitive situations it makes it easier to remember.