[rfedrick]

I'm interested in how people check on Aces in no-fit auctions (i.e. with no keycard available).

This weekend i co-perpetrated this disaster

NORTH (DEALER): ♠AQJxx♥AQxx♦x♣AKx
SOUTH:♠Kx♥xxx♦AKQJ10♣xxx

Our auction is unimportant (it was partly artificial so not particularly illuminating) but a point was reached where North had shown precisely 5413 20-21. South loved his source of tricks but had no way of checking if we were off an ace and so settled for 6NT. I'm interested in how people (playing essentially standard methods) would bid this after starting 1♠-2♦; 2♥-? (or 3♥ if you prefer).

Thanks.

[Hanoi5]

Sometimes you can 'trick' partner into showing KC in a suit and later settling in another suit or NT. In this case it doesn't seem to be the right way to go, unless you KC over 1♠

Also, if you play an artificial system, how come you couln't show a 13 HCP hand and great diamonds? (Maybe because you had only 5?)

[whereagles]

1♠ 2♦
3♥ 4♦
4♠ 4NT
etc

maybe?

[Cyberyeti]

We'd bid

1♠-2♦
2N (GF not necessarily balanced)-3♦(lowest sensible rebid)
3♥-3♠ (normally shows 3 but only sensible bid)
4♣-4♦ (cues)
4♥- 4N (cue/keycard)
5♣-5♦(0/3, Q♠?)
6♣- ? (Yes and K♣ but no red king)

So partner is known to hold at least ♠AQxxx or better ♥Axxx or better but no K, ♣AK.

If partner has ♠J or a 6th one, the grand is good, if he has ♠10 it's OK. There is a case for bidding it in ♦, if partner has AQxxxx, Axxx, x, AK or AQxxx, Axxx, x, AKQ you can survive spades 4-1 or 4-2 as long as the diamonds split. I'd probably bid 7N which gives 13 tricks if the spades run or he has no diamonds and ♣AKQJ, but also gives you a chance if partner has ♥QJ or ♥Q and ♣Q.

It is important to manoeuvre N as declarer so you can find out whether the spades run before you have to decide whether to take the heart hook.

[gnasher]

I don't have any way to find out about aces in a sequence where we've agreed to play in notrumps. It's not often a problem, but I agree that this pair of hands presents difficulties.

Playing 2/1 (or Acol, for that matter), I'd expect it to start

1♠-2♦
2♥-3♣ (FSF)

Now opener's too good for a non-forcing 4NT. My first thought was that he should bid 4♣, but it's not obvious how that will help him - regardless of what responder does, opener is going to be endplayed into bidding 6NT. So over 3♣ I think opener should bid 3♠, which responder will raise. Opener might now bid Keycard twice; if he did, responder would bid the grand slam.

I find all this a bit unconvincing - as opener I'd be a bit nervous about inviting a grand slam when partner could bid only 4♠. Opener's hand has quite a lot of holes.

[Fluffy]

on 2/1 I think south would do a better job rebidding 3♦ than asking with 3♣, partner will then rebid hearts (we raise) rebid spades (we raise) bid 3NT (we pass) or bid 4♣/♦ (we cue 4♠)

As a general principle it is often better to show than ask, its true that 3♦ shows 6♦ and a hand less NT-oriented but all in all its not so bad description, and I think the pluses outweight the minuses.

[kenberg]

I also think that playing with my clone the auction would begin 1♠-2♦(GF)-2♥(bidding 3♥ would either show five, or, with some partners, be a splinter in support of diamonds)-3♦.

From responder's viewpoint, opener is 5-4 in the majors and he expects maybe opener will be bidding 3NT which he will pass. Of course opener has a much bigger hand than he has shown so far.

Exactly what opener will do is not clear but clearly he wants to decide on what level of slam. Bidding 3♠ would not be crazy and would be a big success here. Responder raises to 4, now rkc discloses the missing keys, 5NT guarantees that all keys including the queen of spades are accounted for and asks if responder has any interest in a grand. Looking at five clear tricks, I suppose that he does.

I think this all makes at least some sense. Opener, with his big hand, is ready to play in some sort of slam as soon as he hears 2♦. He needs the king of spades and a source of tricks to bid a grand.


So:
1♠ 2♦
2♥ 3♦
3♠ 4♠
4 NT 5♥
5NT 7♠
7NT

My clone and I may or may not handle it this way at the table, but it seems non-crazy to me.

[Fluffy]

rfedrick, on 2011-May-17, 04:05, said:

I'm interested in how people check on Aces in no-fit auctions (i.e. with no keycard available).

Sorry I forgot to answer your question. What I think most experts do is to settle a fit, even if its not athe strain they will play in the end, but it lets you use keycard at least.

On the example hand south could for example rebid 4♦ over 2♥ wich settles diamonds as trumps and forces partner to cuebid a major. That would be a good alternative if he had the big extras, for example if you transfer ♣AK to south.


To kenberg:

I like your auction, but IMO north cannot bid 7NT over 7♠, for all that he knows he might be facing ♠Kx ♥Kx ♦AKJ10xx ♣xxx. The guy who can bid 7NT is south: 6♠, 1♥, 5♦, 1♣

EDIT: Switched diamonds to ♦AKJ10xx cos otherwise 13 tricks are there anyway.

[kenberg]

Makes sense. It will turn out to be five spades and two clubs but he counts six spades and one club. Opener says "Pretend I have six spades" and responder so pretends. Opener will be forgiven when he comes up with the extra club.