[mr1303]

OK, if I was told 2H is, and was described as natural, and partner jumped out of the blue to 4S, I would pass because 1) I don't what partner is doing, and 2) I really don't see that 5D/H is likely to be any better. It isn't as though one of the opponents has bid spades.

If partner think's he's raising my spades, then that might make it more likely for me to try something else (5D and a wing and a prayer I guess). Therefore, I think that passing is an LA.

[paulg]

I redouble to show my keycard. This should keep us out of the committee room.

[aguahombre]

paulg, on 2011-March-13, 17:06, said:

I redouble to show my keycard. This should keep us out of the committee room.

Best answer of the lot. Frances, that was another attempt at humor.

[dburn]

I suppose it isn't really to be wondered at, but I wonder at it sometimes: why do the people who mess up Ghestem (or the like) always have the luck to do so when partner has already passed?

Maybe it's because we've actually succeeded in educating the masses, so that when an unpassed partner bids spades on an auction such as 1♥-3♣ (allegedly spades and diamonds, but really clubs), the 3♣ bidder knows to pass and take his lumps in three or four spades doubled (last time I did that it might have been a good save against seven spades the other way, but although the defence was benign, the vulnerability was not).

Maybe it's because we've only succeeded in educating the criminals, so that when an unpassed (or even a passed) hand has eight spades, he will take great pains to volunteer an unsolicited explanation before bidding four spades.

Maybe it's a statistical miracle. Maybe (all together now) it's because I'm a Londoner...

Me, I'd pass and curse. But I am probably a masochist - I would not necessarily rule against anyone who bid. The argument "what would you do if partner had explained 2♥ as natural and then bid 4♠ over it?" is flawed in too many other ways to be of general application.

[gnasher]

dburn, on 2011-March-14, 22:38, said:

I suppose it isn't really to be wondered at, but I wonder at it sometimes: why do the people who mess up Ghestem (or the like) always have the luck to do so when partner has already passed?

Your experience and expertise in both the game and the laws command considerable respect, but I don't think that gives you the right to make vile insinuations of this sort. What grounds do you have for suggesting that we were playing Ghestem? And the weasel words "or the like" don't make it any better.

[campboy]

I don't think it's particularly remarkable that people don't accept out-of-turn responses and then bid the same suit very often.

Anyway, I don't believe any decent player would bid like this with eight spades. Certainly he might pass on the first round, but then when he hears 2♥ from you he should realise that a 4♠ bid is no longer viable since it is not likely to be believed.

[aguahombre]

campboy, on 2011-March-15, 05:37, said:

Anyway, I don't believe any decent player would bid like this with eight spades. Certainly he might pass on the first round, but then when he hears 2♥ from you he should realise that a 4♠ bid is no longer viable since it is not likely to be believed.

Now I am getting confused, Camp. If the player with 8 spades sees a natural 2H bid from partner, why would that change the credence of a 4S call? Remember we are looking at this situation through the eyes of the 2H bidder who is not authorized to use the alert --not thru the eyes of the guy with 8 spades.

[campboy]

aguahombre, on 2011-March-15, 09:39, said:

Now I am getting confused, Camp. If the player with 8 spades sees a natural 2H bid from partner, why would that change the credence of a 4S call? Remember we are looking at this situation through the eyes of the 2H bidder who is not authorized to use the alert --not thru the eyes of the guy with 8 spades.

What alert? In this hypothetical scenario, where I know 2♥ is natural but have lots of spades, there won't have been any alert. And partner is not authorised to use the lack of alert, so he must pull 4♠ (there is plenty of evidence in this thread that pulling is an LA).

[blackshoe]

The law speaks of unexpected alerts or failures to alert. So if there's no alert, and you didn't expect one, you should be fine. NB: I haven't rescanned the thread so I don't know if this lack of alert was to be expected or not.

[FrancesHinden]

gnasher, on 2011-March-15, 04:02, said:

Your experience and expertise in both the game and the laws command considerable respect, but I don't think that gives you the right to make vile insinuations of this sort. What grounds do you have for suggesting that we were playing Ghestem? And the weasel words "or the like" don't make it any better.

Perhaps the fact that half of your partnership thought that 2H showed spades and diamonds, and half thought it was natural. That seems sufficiently close to half a partnership thinking 3C is natural and half of them thinking it shows the majors to justify 'or the like'

I know, it was another attempt at humour.

Anyway it's about time one of your system screwups resulted in a large swing out.