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dropped Stayman

Poll: dropped Stayman (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Attribute the blame. Matchpoints.

  1. All East (9 votes [47.37%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 47.37%

  2. Mostly East (2 votes [10.53%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

  3. Pretty even (6 votes [31.58%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.58%

  4. Mostly West (1 votes [5.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  5. All West (1 votes [5.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

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#1 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-February-18, 17:13


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#2 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-February-18, 17:34

I voted no blame, since NS didn't seem to contribute much to the result.
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#3 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-February-18, 17:41

View PostPhil, on 2011-February-18, 17:34, said:

I voted no blame, since NS didn't seem to contribute much to the result.

Thank you. Got distracted in the middle.
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#4 User is offline   relknes 

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Posted 2011-February-18, 17:43

All east... which apparently isn't an option. Why open 1NT with that hand? If that's part of their system, then I say the blame is eavenly divided for using such agreements!
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#5 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2011-February-18, 18:40

100% to both. Hate the 1NT opening with two low doubletons (which has an easy rebid of 3C after 1C) and I don't understand 2C stayman (unless it was Keri)
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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-February-18, 18:54

Was West going to pass 2♠ also, after stayman?
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#7 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-February-18, 19:00

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-February-18, 18:54, said:

Was West going to pass 2♠ also, after stayman?

West planned to bid 2NT over 2♠.
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#8 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2011-February-18, 19:19

Hate 1NT, if you want to show this hand as balanced it is too strong for 1NT, open 1♣ and rebid 2NT - even a 2NT opening has more upside than a 1NT opening.
Hate Stayman - why am I trying to play in 2NT (or 3NT!) with this soft 6 count opposite a 15-17 NT?
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#9 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2011-February-19, 04:27

East: I can understand an off-shape 1NT with ♣2 instead of ♣K. This is WAY too strong. Besides two small doubletons...

West: This hand doesn't have a rebid after partner's likely 2♠ rebid. Stayman was NOT a good idea.

As others said, N/S were not at fault *g
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#10 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-February-19, 06:42

Agree with Gerben. Yuk, E W deserve each other.
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#11 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-February-19, 08:50

I can not see what West wanted to bid over 2♠. But maybe they had some agreements thereafter I do not know about. Anyway West is too strong wanting to play in ♦ opposite a strong notrump and is not strong enough to insist on game even if partner has ♥. So if somebody is to blame it is West.

With regard to East I have some sympathy for his choice third in hand. These bids can backfire of course, but you do not win by always making the book bid. I like players who know the book bid, but also know when to deviate from them. Besides opening 1♣ will create rebid problems most of the time and anyway what is so terrible about 2♦? You are not down yet.
I also beg to differ from Gerben. This hand is not in the 18-19 HCP notrump category. Sure you have playing tricks, but the opponents have the opening lead.
Note, that the 1NT opening has kept opponents out of their nine card ♠ fit, where they might make game if the cards lie not too unfavorable for them.

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#12 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-February-19, 09:01

Blame the doctor, who let E/W out of the sanatory :P
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#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-February-19, 13:06

View Postrhm, on 2011-February-19, 08:50, said:

and anyway what is so terrible about 2♦? You are not down yet.

Rainer Herrmann


I think 3NT would score better and probably as good a chance or better than 2D.
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#14 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-February-19, 20:55

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-February-18, 17:41, said:

Thank you. Got distracted in the middle.


Sorry, I know my humor doesn't contribute much...

1N is pretty bad. I would open 1♣ and rebid 2N.
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#15 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-February-19, 22:08

View PostPhil, on 2011-February-19, 20:55, said:

Sorry, I know my humor doesn't contribute much...

Perfectly appropriate, and made me look back at the post.
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#16 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-February-20, 16:16

View PostPhil, on 2011-February-19, 20:55, said:

Sorry, I know my humor doesn't contribute much...

1N is pretty bad. I would open 1♣ and rebid 2N.

So holding ♠AQ7♥82♦J6♣AKQJ74 you would bid 2NT after

1♣--1♦ with 82 in ♥ ?
1♣--1♥ with J6 in ♦ maybe just barely acceptable.
1♣--1♠ with 82 in ♥ and J6 in ♦ ?

I think your humor does contribute. It is a funny one.
Sorry I prefer a 1NT opening to this bidding. You have 2 low doubleton where you will need help from partner to be successful and 15-17 is about right on strength. You will normally need more than 6-7 random HCP to make 3NT. This can easily be proven by a simulation.
It is just the severe rebid problems after 1♣, which makes the 1NT opening acceptable in my opinion. A 1NT opening will also make it much easier to reach ♠ and the right level when partner holds 5 mediocre cards in ♠.


Rainer Herrmann
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#17 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-February-20, 16:29

View PostPhil, on 2011-February-19, 20:55, said:

I would open 1♣ and rebid 2N.

View Postrhm, on 2011-February-20, 16:16, said:

I prefer a 1NT opening to this bidding.

So, with what hand would you open 1♣ then rebid 3♣ over 1♦or♥?
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#18 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-February-20, 16:31

Yeh, Rain, I prefer 1NT to rebidding 2NT on your auctions. But I think opening 1NT is wrong, too. Someone early on suggested 1C, then 3C (Andy) ---a bit heavy, but can live with it.
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#19 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-February-20, 16:49

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-February-20, 16:31, said:

Yeh, Rain, I prefer 1NT to rebidding 2NT on your auctions. But I think opening 1NT is wrong, too. Someone early on suggested 1C, then 3C (Andy) ---a bit heavy, but can live with it.

Maybe, but if you jump to 3♣, you can easily miss 4♠ when partner is weak with ♠ and no direct raise would be right over 1♠. That is where a 1NT opening would score.

Rainer Herrmann
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#20 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-February-20, 16:56

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-February-20, 16:29, said:

So, with what hand would you open 1♣ then rebid 3♣ over 1♦or♥?

And what do you do over 1♠?

If I opened 1♣ I would rather jump raise ♠ than jump rebid ♣.
But some would consider this heresy and most would not play a 3NT rebid by partner as natural over a jump raise.

Rainer Herrmann
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