[Al_U_Card]

johnu, on 2018-June-14, 20:35, said:

Swamp gas from Washington DC is also contributing to global warming

More likely government money directing "fake" research is a bigger problem. Original "hot air" started in Rio at the Earth Summit and Strong's pitch for the UNFCCC and a fledgling IPCC to use global warming as a means to an end. It has become a religion as well as a waste of money. Unlike CO2, swamp gas is not beneficial to plant life and whatever effect it may have on planetary temperatures is less than what all those computer models have been programmed to indicate. That is why they all run "hot", hotter than the real, natural, global warming that has been on-going for several centuries, fortunately for us.

[johnu]

Al_U_Card, on 2018-June-15, 06:47, said:

More likely government money directing "fake" research is a bigger problem. Original "hot air" started in Rio at the Earth Summit and Strong's pitch for the UNFCCC and a fledgling IPCC to use global warming as a means to an end. It has become a religion as well as a waste of money. Unlike CO2, swamp gas is not beneficial to plant life and whatever effect it may have on planetary temperatures is less than what all those computer models have been programmed to indicate. That is why they all run "hot", hotter than the real, natural, global warming that has been on-going for several centuries, fortunately for us.

LOL

[PassedOut]

Ex-Nasa scientist: 30 years on, world is failing 'miserably’ to address climate change

Quote

The dawdling global response to warming temperatures means runaway climate change now looms. The aspirational 1.5C (2.7F) warming target set in Paris be surpassed by 2040. Huge amounts of ice from western Antarctica are crashing into the ocean, redrawing forecasts for sea level rise. Some low-lying islands fear extinction.

“It’s not too late,” Hansen stressed. “There is a rate of reduction that’s feasible to stay well below 2C. But you just need that price on carbon.”

John Holdren, who was Obama’s chief science adviser, told the Guardian that the Paris agreement achieved what was possible without support from Congress and that legally binding lawsuits would be “problematic”.

However, he added that while he had reservations about Hansen’s policy ideas he was one of the “true giants” of climate science.

“Poor Jim Hansen. He’s a tragic hero,” said Naomi Oreskes, a Harvard academic who studies the history of science. “The Cassandra aspect of his life is that he’s cursed to understand and diagnose what’s going on but unable to persuade people to do something about it. We are all raised to believe knowledge is power but Hansen proves the untruth of that slogan. Power is power.”

That power has been most aggressively wielded by fossil fuel companies such as Exxon and Shell which, despite being well aware of the dangers of climate change decades before Hansen’s touchstone moment in 1988, funded a network of groups that ridiculed the science and funded sympathetic politicians. Later, they were to be joined by the bulk of the US Republican party, which now recoils from any action on climate change as heresy.

“Obama was committed to action but couldn’t do much with the Congress he had,” Oreskes said. “To blame the Democrats and Obama is to misunderstand the political context. There was a huge, organized network that put forward a message of confusion and doubt.”

Climate scientist Michael Oppenheimer, who testified at the same 1988 hearing about sea level rise, said the struggle to confront climate change has been “discouraging”.

“The nasty anti-science movement ramped up and now we are way behind.”

“I’m convinced we will deal with the problem,” he said. “[But] not before there is an amount of suffering that is unconscionable and should’ve been avoided.”

The same approach that cigarette companies used to maintain profits at the expense of human lives has worked to prevent action on climate change too. But the consequences for failing to deal with climate change will be much greater for sure.

[Al_U_Card]

PassedOut, on 2018-June-19, 10:53, said:

Ex-Nasa scientist: 30 years on, world is failing 'miserably’ to address climate change


The same approach that cigarette companies used to maintain profits at the expense of human lives has worked to prevent action on climate change too. But the consequences for failing to deal with climate change will be much greater for sure.

What a crock. Just how much temperature will be "saved" by reducing CO2 emissions? A simple correspondance should suffice since the effect is so clear and obvious ...

[johnu]

Al_U_Card, on 2018-June-19, 19:45, said:

What a crock. Just how much temperature will be "saved" by reducing CO2 emissions? A simple correspondance should suffice since the effect is so clear and obvious ...

Chill bro, why don't you have a long smoke. Smoking is good for you.

[Al_U_Card]

johnu, on 2018-June-20, 01:30, said:

Chill bro, why don't you have a long smoke. Smoking is good for you.

Obviously not what you all are smoking but enjoy your kool-aid, while you can.

[Winstonm]

Nothing to worry about - acid rains melt CO2 particles - which I'm not saying there is such things - but it would - if they were real.

[Al_U_Card]

Al_U_Card, on 2018-June-19, 19:45, said:

Just how much temperature will be "saved" by reducing CO2 emissions? A simple correspondance should suffice since the effect is so clear and obvious ... still waiting ... the science being settled (enough to deplete our finances to lower global temperatures some definable(?) amount) ... so do tell

[Al_U_Card]

A most interesting "explanation" for SLR, such as it is or may be...or not.

[y66]

PassedOut, on 2018-June-19, 10:53, said:

Ex-Nasa scientist: 30 years on, world is failing 'miserably’ to address climate change

The same approach that cigarette companies used to maintain profits at the expense of human lives has worked to prevent action on climate change too. But the consequences for failing to deal with climate change will be much greater for sure.

I've seen Hansen talk. He really is his own worst enemy when it comes to persuading people much like the effect Krugman has on some retired math professors who post here, only 1000x more shrill. I was struck by this story from last week in which Angela Merkle assured workers they would not be left behind in Germany’s climate policies. That's not just good politics, it's good thinking. If Obama and Clinton had said "we are thinking of workers first" and meant it at every opportunity, the future for workers and the planet would look a lot less bleak than it does at the moment. No doubt, even Hansen gets this now.

[Al_U_Card]

The same Hansen that, since his charade in D.C. 30 yrs ago, has been generally wrong about most of his erstwhile "projections"? (Manhatten w/s hiway underwater etc.) Inspection of the temperature record reveals natural variation (enso, solar et al) accounting for the minor warming we have had in the last 30 yrs. CO2 has risen also but with nowhere near the kind of effect that has been attributed to its miniscule presence in the atmosphere.

[y66]

Al_U_Card, on 2018-June-24, 13:09, said:

The same Hansen that, since his charade in D.C. 30 yrs ago, has been generally wrong about most of his erstwhile "projections"? (Manhatten w/s hiway underwater etc.) Inspection of the temperature record reveals natural variation (enso, solar et al) accounting for the minor warming we have had in the last 30 yrs. CO2 has risen also but with nowhere near the kind of effect that has been attributed to its miniscule presence in the atmosphere.

Please stop trolling this thread.

[Al_U_Card]

Information, insight ... try the ignore button and that will keep the thread content, context and conflict free.

[Daniel1960]

y66, on 2018-June-24, 09:38, said:

I've seen Hansen talk. He really is his own worst enemy when it comes to persuading people much like the effect Krugman has on some retired math professors who post here, only 1000x more shrill. I was struck by this story from last week in which Angela Merkle assured workers they would not be left behind in Germany’s climate policies. That's not just good politics, it's good thinking. If Obama and Clinton had said "we are thinking of workers first" and meant it at every opportunity, the future for workers and the planet would look a lot less bleak than it does at the moment. No doubt, even Hansen gets this now.

Possibly, although I am not so sure. He seems to be more focused on his long-term goal, without regards to how it might affect the average person, or worse, the poor. He seems to believe that it is alright to inflict hardships on the everyone (which fall hardest on the poorest), because of his desire to strive for a greater good. The ends do not justify the means.

[Winstonm]

Daniel1960, on 2018-June-29, 11:50, said:

Possibly, although I am not so sure. He seems to be more focused on his long-term goal, without regards to how it might affect the average person, or worse, the poor. He seems to believe that it is alright to inflict hardships on the everyone (which fall hardest on the poorest), because of his desire to strive for a greater good. The ends do not justify the means.

So now you are arguing only against politics - which must mean you are politically motivated and really aren't concerned about climate change. This does not come as a shock to those who know the history or deniers, from tobacco until today.

[Al_U_Card]

Daniel1960, on 2018-June-29, 11:50, said:

Possibly, although I am not so sure. He seems to be more focused on his long-term goal, without regards to how it might affect the average person, or worse, the poor. He seems to believe that it is alright to inflict hardships on the everyone (which fall hardest on the poorest), because of his desire to strive for a greater good. The ends do not justify the means.

He is certainly invested in his "cause" and believes that his initial fears have been realized despite factual observation to the contrary. If anyone is political, he has been demonstrating and protesting even before he left his government job (Does the Hatch Act cover that?) so his continued zeal is no surprise.

[Daniel1960]

Winstonm, on 2018-June-29, 12:14, said:

So now you are arguing only against politics - which must mean you are politically motivated and really aren't concerned about climate change. This does not come as a shock to those who know the history or deniers, from tobacco until today.

Just because I agree that Hansen is somewhat callous when he talks, I am now just politically motivated? I suppose you think that those who think that Trump is crass and uncaring are just politically-motivated deniers also? Get real!

[Al_U_Card]

I see that we are 1 step closer to the revelation of the U of Az e-mails concerning the Mann-Bradley-Hughes 98 paper that fooled the world with a bogus hockey stick temperature reconstruction. Should be interesting, when they eventally appeal it for the last time.(I hope to live long enough to see them.)

[Al_U_Card]

[CO2] at 260ppm and everything survived about a 6C difference with today. At least we know that it wasn't SUVs



Mangerud and Svendsen, 2018
The Holocene Thermal Maximum around Svalbard, Arctic
North Atlantic; molluscs show early and exceptional warmth
“Shallow marine molluscs that are today extinct close to Svalbard, because of the cold climate, are found in deposits there dating to the early Holocene. The most warmth-demanding species found, Zirfaea crispata, currently has a northern limit 1000 km farther south, indicating that August temperatures on Svalbard were 6°C warmer at around 10.2–9.2 cal. ka BP, when this species lived there. … After 8.2 cal. ka, the climate around Svalbard warmed again, and although it did not reach the same peak in temperatures as prior to 9 ka, it was nevertheless some 4°C warmer than present between 8.2 and 6 cal. ka BP. … The occurrence of the blue mussel, Mytilus edulis, suggests that climate around Svalbard was 2°C warmer than at present as early as about 11 cal. ka BP. The climate was about 6°C warmer than at present between 10.0 and 9.2 cal. ka BP, as shown by the presence of Zirfaea crispata. One single specimen of Mytilus is dated to 900 years BP, suggesting a short-lived warm period during the Medieval Warm Period of northern Europe.”



Bartels et al., 2018
Wahlenbergfjord, eastern Svalbard: a glacier-surrounded fjord
reflecting regional hydrographic variability during the Holocene?
“During summer, AW [Atlantic Water] rises up to waterdepths as shallow as ~55 m. … Summer surface temperatures [1955-2012] range between up to 3°C at the northern mouth and <-1.5 °C at the southern mouth of the Hinlopen Strait, while winter surface temperatures vary between 0.5 and <~1.5°C (averaged, 1955–2012; Locarnini et al. 2013). … Increased summer insolation probably amplified the surface melting of the glaciers resulting in enhanced meltwater production and in a very high accumulation of finegrained sediments within the fjord […].”

“In addition, during the mild early Holocene conditions, summer sea-surface temperatures probably reaching 8–10°C [~5 – 9°C warmer than 1955-2012] (indicated by M. edulis findings as discussed in Hansen et al. 2011) may have contributed to reducing the number of glaciers that entered the fjord directly as tidewater glaciers and thus causing a diminished IRD input. … In lake sediments from northwestern Spitsbergen a temperature drop of ~6°C is recorded between c. 7.8 and c. 7 ka [-0.8°C per century], which has been connected to a stronger influence of Arctic Water and expanding sea ice (van der Bilt et al. 2018).”



McFarlin et al., 2018
Pronounced summer warming in northwest Greenland
during the Holocene and Last Interglacial
“(Greenland) Early Holocene peak warmth has been quantified at only a few sites, and terrestrial sedimentary records of prior interglacials are exceptionally rare due to glacial erosion during the last glacial period. Here, we discuss findings from a lacustrine archive that records both the Holocene and the Last Interglacial (LIG) from Greenland, allowing for direct comparison between two interglacials. Sedimentary chironomid assemblages indicate peak July temperatures [Greenland] 4.0 to 7.0 °C warmer than modern during the Early Holocene maximum [10,000 to 8,000 years ago] in summer insolation. Chaoborus and chironomids in LIG [the last interglacial] sediments indicate July temperatures at least 5.5 to 8.5 °C warmer than modern.”

[blackshoe]

Hm. Humans weren't around back then. So who caused all that warming? Dinosaurs? Aliens?