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Stop-ask or Natural ?

#1 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2010-August-29, 17:50

p - ( 1D ) - 3D = ??

Stop-ask or natural, long suit ?
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#2 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-29, 17:52

i prefer natural
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#3 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-August-29, 17:58

Natch. 3M is a stop ask.
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#4 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2010-August-29, 18:02

JLOGIC, on Aug 29 2010, 06:52 PM, said:

i prefer natural

What if there is no partner pass ... still natural for you?

( 1D ) - 3D-jump = ??
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#5 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2010-August-29, 19:40

We play natural.

Did Phil mean

(1m) 3M

or

(1M) 3M? - hmmm I guess it is obvious but it confused me on first reading.

We play (1M) 3M as natural too - mostly for comics sitting in third chair but we are too lazy to play it any other way in the other seats. It came up once (after a first seat opening) when partner had seven hearts.
Wayne Burrows

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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-August-29, 19:54

Treadwell....showing diamond stopper and looking for a running 8 bagger opposite. Slightly better than Reverse Treadwell, because the diamond stopper is positional.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#7 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-August-29, 22:09

Treadwell? We call this the Irish cue bid in Australia
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#8 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 01:56

I like stop ask. Natural comes so rarely. I guess it could be argued that stop ask comes even more rarely but I think it's nice to tell partner at once where I live when I have a strong hand.

Also, in harmony with my recent posts, I'd like to point out that it's simpler to play this 3D as stop ask over a standard 1♦ because it spares you from drawing an arbitrary line in the range of 1♦ openers (literally better minor, SAYC, 4+ but could be a weak NT, 5+ unless 4441♣, 5+ no matter what). Well I'm lying a little bit here, I also need to draw an arbitrary line somewhere in the Precision 1♦ opener ranges, I'm drawing it at 2+, I'd like 3♦ to be a stop ask if 1♦ is 4+♦ or 5♣3♦(4-1 majors either way).
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#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 02:05

ONEferBRID, on Aug 29 2010, 07:02 PM, said:

JLOGIC, on Aug 29 2010, 06:52 PM, said:

i prefer natural

What if there is no partner pass ... still natural for you?

( 1D ) - 3D-jump = ??

yep
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#10 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 02:33

we play 3D as Michaels, more shape than 3D, it showed up.

In general, for us bidding their suit is always artificial, unless explicitly
discussed and agreed otherwise.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#11 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 04:02

WOW people really play this natural? I've never thought of playing this natural since I've never missed it (as far as I can remember). I just play the standard stopper ask... :D
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#12 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 04:07

Free, on Aug 30 2010, 05:02 AM, said:

WOW people really play this natural?  I've never thought of playing this natural since I've never missed it (as far as I can remember).  I just play the standard stopper ask...  :D

I'm pretty sure in USA natural would be at least expert standard, probably not standard though but I'm not sure. Other countries might be different obv, no idea.
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#13 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 04:09

JLOGIC, on Aug 30 2010, 11:07 AM, said:

Free, on Aug 30 2010, 05:02 AM, said:

WOW people really play this natural?  I've never thought of playing this natural since I've never missed it (as far as I can remember).  I just play the standard stopper ask...  :D

I'm pretty sure in USA natural would be at least expert standard, probably not standard though but I'm not sure. Other countries might be different obv, no idea.

Ok I stand corrected, the old standard ;)
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#14 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 06:11

gwnn, on Aug 30 2010, 08:56 AM, said:

I like stop ask. Natural comes so rarely.

Kinda depends whether your opponents play highly artificial systems like SAYC or Precision...
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#15 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 17:14

I wasn't at the table. I was just asked about this sequence.
Seems like there is a "split decision" here.

p - ( 1D ) - 3D = ??

There was some discussion about it afterwards.
The 3D bidder's hand was:

♠x x
♥A x
♦x x
♣A K J T x x x

... but his partner took 3D as natural
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#16 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-August-30, 17:15

Weird that people say natural is rare, I think it's more common than the stopper ask meaning.
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#17 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2010-September-02, 01:08

With a general partner I'd play it as natural. In my preferred methods it is "both majors, strong" with 2H being "both majors, weak".
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