[rduran1216]

a small aside

a couple partners and I play 1m-4NT as 17-18+ quantitative, its come up once, but its a good bid in how it hinders the defense in getting off to a good lead

[jdonn]

Gwnn not quantitative! Why take up all that room when opener has so much more of his shape to describe? How does he know what to do with extra club length? Lots of hands we could have just found a trump suit and started cuebidding. You are making me sad

[jdonn]

Codo, on Aug 22 2010, 10:25 AM, said:

Any suit can be bid and/or raised by 4sf. But if you want to invite quant. for 6 NT, this is impossible after say
1♦ 1 ♥
1 ♠ 2 ♣
2 ♥

So I would take it as invitational to 6 NT.

How is it impossible? You bid 2NT, then 4NT on your next turn. If you have your agreements down you could even show it with 3NT now and save yourself from having to make the bloody 10th trick.

[Codo]

U R right, nothing is impossible for you.

But if you have not even defined what 4 NT shows, you surely have no idea, what 4sf and later 2 NT/3 NT/4 NT shows....

But it is always MUCH easier to KC for any other suit after 4sf, isn't it?

[gwnn]

jdonn, on Aug 23 2010, 03:51 AM, said:

Gwnn not quantitative! Why take up all that room when opener has so much more of his shape to describe? How does he know what to do with extra club length? Lots of hands we could have just found a trump suit and started cuebidding. You are making me sad

sorry for ruining your day jdonn but I like simplicity and I like how
0NT=w-v
1NT=v+1 - x
2NT=x+1 - y
3NT=y+1 - z
4NT=z+1 - u

and more or less the same handtype. obviously not quite but I could construct a certain shape with a certain club holding and adding HCP continuously to the non-club suits, they will go through pass, 1NT, 2NT, 3NT and 4NT.

also

1x-1y
2z(not a reverse)-4NT
3z-4NT

1M-2y
2z-4N

and so on.

I don't like to have a headache whether in case b or case c it makes more or less sense to play quantitative. I just play Quantitative always yay.

[OleBerg]

gwnn, on Aug 24 2010, 04:20 PM, said:

...I like simplicity and I like how
0NT=w-v
1NT=v+1 - x
2NT=x+1 - y
3NT=y+1 - z
4NT=z+1 - u

Que?

[aguahombre]

gwnn, on Aug 24 2010, 08:20 AM, said:

I don't like to have a headache whether in case b or case c it makes more or less sense to play quantitative. I just play Quantitative always yay.

And in the poll, apparently eight others, of the 38 who voted, agree with you.

With all weak NT hands, they will pass 4NT, presumably ---because of the range you give for 4NT -- and strive to get at least 10 tricks. With 18-19 balanced, they will proceed to slam in NT.

With all unbalanced hands which might not belong in NT at all, whether weak or stronger, they will have no clue how to continue the search for strain and level.

Headache Transfer Convention?

[gwnn]

OleBerg, on Aug 24 2010, 04:39 PM, said:

gwnn, on Aug 24 2010, 04:20 PM, said:

...I like simplicity and I like how
0NT=w-v
1NT=v+1 - x
2NT=x+1 - y
3NT=y+1 - z
4NT=z+1 - u

Que?

in this case it would be something like

4-7
8-10
11-12
13-16
17-18

I freely admit that I don't have this sequence well defined with any of my partners, but I know one would take it 100% as quantitative and 1 would take it 0% as quantitative.

[jdonn]

gwnn, on Aug 24 2010, 09:20 AM, said:

jdonn, on Aug 23 2010, 03:51 AM, said:

Gwnn not quantitative! Why take up all that room when opener has so much more of his shape to describe? How does he know what to do with extra club length? Lots of hands we could have just found a trump suit and started cuebidding. You are making me sad

sorry for ruining your day jdonn but I like simplicity and I like how
0NT=w-v
1NT=v+1 - x
2NT=x+1 - y
3NT=y+1 - z
4NT=z+1 - u

and more or less the same handtype. obviously not quite but I could construct a certain shape with a certain club holding and adding HCP continuously to the non-club suits, they will go through pass, 1NT, 2NT, 3NT and 4NT.

also

1x-1y
2z(not a reverse)-4NT
3z-4NT

1M-2y
2z-4N

and so on.

I don't like to have a headache whether in case b or case c it makes more or less sense to play quantitative. I just play Quantitative always yay.

Simplicity personified?

[peachy]

As a followup. This didn't happen at the table, but we discussed it a little and wondered what most would understand it as. Seems that RKC is about 3/4 majority opinion.

I would like to see a sequence or some sequences (if any, maybe there really isn't any) that show a quantitative invite after auction starts 1D-1H-1S, when 1D-1H-1S-4NT is RKC for spades. Please ignore the hand I showed in another thread, I am hoping to keep the discussion on the system level, no actual hands. Thanks again!

[aguahombre]

1D-1H
1S- 2C
2N-4N.......but 17 would be too low.

There would be others, I think.

[aguahombre]

Also:
1D-1H
1S-2C
2N-3N
4N....where opener was temporizing in a GF auction to see where responder was going before showing his own extras.

[gwnn]

come on jdonn give me a break, I just handle numbers and maths better than English.