[bluecalm]

1♥ pass 1NT pass
pass dbl = ?

I usually want to play t/o doubles everywhere but here I see the case for penalty one according to general principle that we try to bid on first opportunity and avoid balancing later.

Anyway, what is your choice and why ?

[gwnn]

good hand with hearts. you should pass with a balanced hand but bid if you have a suit and little values.

[Fluffy]

it can be played 2 way, penalty if you are short in hearts, take out if you have 3+. Opponents will not have huge fits here.

[OleBerg]

Fluffy, on Aug 2 2010, 05:17 PM, said:

it can be played 2 way, penalty if you are short in hearts, take out if you have 3+. Opponents will not have huge fits here.

Play it 2-way too.

[pooltuna]

DSIP (oh BTW partner I have a penalty X of 1♥)

[gnasher]

I think it should be flawed takeout - something like a weak notrump without the right shape for an initial takeout double.

[jdonn]

It may be a good auction for 2-way, but I very strongly prefer penalty to takeout otherwise. What is there about my flawed takeout double that makes me want to enter an auction where no one has found a fit?

[Phil]

2-way in one partnership, penalty / optional in another.

Other partnerships this has not been discussed (note to self...).

[JLOGIC]

Penalty seems better than 2 way to stop partner from making stupid "takeout" doubles of 1N with no values on a misfit auction. There's a reason it's not a takeout double!

[gnasher]

jdonn, on Aug 2 2010, 05:11 PM, said:

What is there about my flawed takeout double that makes me want to enter an auction where no one has found a fit?

It's also an auction where the opponents are limited, we can expect the suits to break, and, if it's matchpoints, we may be getting only a mediocre score from defending 1NT undoubled.

The value of this style of double depends on what you need for a first-round double. I imagine that on many of the hands where I'd want to double now, you would already have bid.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Aug 3 2010, 09:37 AM, said:

jdonn, on Aug 2 2010, 05:11 PM, said:

What is there about my flawed takeout double that makes me want to enter an auction where no one has found a fit?

It's also an auction where the opponents are limited, we can expect the suits to break, and, if it's matchpoints, we may be getting only a mediocre score from defending 1NT undoubled.

The value of this style of double depends on what you need for a first-round double. I imagine that on many of the hands where I'd want to double now, you would already have bid.

I (penalty) double you on "we can expect the suits to break". Heck that break you receive may well be a 4-3.

This just makes me feel much more confident that my style of takeout doubles is best. Not only do I enter more safely when I have them, but apparently playing them sounder I also lose when I hold a normal penalty double later since I wouldn't be playing them.

[peachy]

It shows an opening hand with heart suit, a hand which had wrong shape for takeout double in the first round of bidding. So it is Penalty in the vote box since the vote options did not include this. And in reality it is left in nearly always.

[dake50]

Don't want to miss a spade fit, but won't commit to 2S, so X.
Hope we don't land in the minor(s) 1NT bidder has.

[gszeszycki]

IMO you are way more likely to have a weak distributional hand you could not bid with after 1h than you are to have a strong hand with hearts that you hated to bid
some number of nt with. For ex you hold something like
K432 7 Q543 Q432
Rho opens 1h I pass w/o hesitation. bidding continues 1n p p
and now I pipe in with my tox because it is not so dangerous anymore with the hcp
seeming to be split somewhat evenly. Dont even try to convince me anyone wants to X with this hand directly over 1h because you are not even remotely prepared for P to pass for penalties.

[JLOGIC]

I AM A PSYCHOPATH BUT MIKEH IS GIVING ME THE HELP I NEED

[kgr]

JLOGIC, on Aug 5 2010, 01:37 AM, said:

gszeszycki, on Aug 4 2010, 11:56 AM, said:

IMO you are way more likely to have a weak distributional hand you could not bid with after 1h than you are to have a strong hand with hearts that you hated to bid
some number of nt with. For ex you hold something like
K432 7 Q543 Q432
Rho opens 1h  I pass w/o hesitation. bidding continues 1n p p
and now I pipe in with my tox because it is not so dangerous anymore with the hcp
seeming to be split somewhat evenly. Dont even try to convince me anyone wants to X with this hand directly over 1h because you are not even remotely prepared for P to pass for penalties.

I have no desire to double the first time it's true, but I also have no desire to double the second time.

Make it a hand that is almost a take-out DBL initially; something like:
KJxx-x-QTxx-KJxx
at MP's
(And I play that 1M-1NT can include a (non-forcing) weak hand with 3cM-fit).
=> I prefer to play it take-out

[eyhung]

I'd double initially with 10 bad HCP and 4144. Double with hands like that and you won't need the delayed light takeouts.

I used to be very aggressive doubling in a delayed fashion with light takeout hands, then I realized that partner almost always has 5+ hearts on this auction opposite my stiff, and the hand just doesn't play very well. Nowadays most experts play that 1NT is semi-forcing or forcing so this auction is rare and they are highly unlikely to have a fit, so you are also unlikely to have a fit. Much better to try to take 7 tricks against NT than 8 with a bad fit. So now I play penalty and haven't missed the light takeout.

[bluecalm]

Thanks all.
Dbl penalty is now my choice thanks to the answers.

[foo]

The X is neither for T/O nor penalty. It is "cards".

Say ~ a 12-15 NT hand with ♥ values.

[pooltuna]

I am stunned! The current vote heavily in favor of penalty over takeout makes me wonder what happened to all the BBO posters as a penalty X is non existent in the forums