BBO Discussion Forums: Round 1, Board 2 - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Round 1, Board 2 Forum Bidding Contest

#1 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2010-July-25, 22:19

Scoring: MP

Board 2. Bidding Script: North overcalls 1 if available, passes otherwise. NS don't bid after this.

Notes: This is a big hand opposite a weak hand. Questions are will East bid 1 over 1 (game surely reached then, but wrong sided), or will he make a negative double (also reaching game fairly surely, but right sided). If East passes, the question is how does West reopen? If with a double, he is fairly sure he is going to wrong side the potential spade contract with heart lead through his Kx. On the other hand, 1 seems an underbid. A 1NT bid is about right on stregth, and might be the best choice. A lot of forum bidders solved this problem by opening WEST hand 2NT and after jacoby wondered what the problem was.


Board 2 scores: 4w = 10, 4e=5, 3w = 3, 3e = 1, 2N/3New=0

On this hand, 11 pairs played 4S from West, 10 from East, four pairs played in 3 or less spades, and one pair played in 3 by West.

4S W peachy/lg62
4S w elianna/awm
4S W lobowolf/bkjswan
4S W jlall/hanp
4S W karlson/threenobob
4S W mbodell - javabean
4S W tlgoodwin/timg
4S W kfay/jchiu
4S W jdonn/gib
4S W Hrothgar/Free
4S W kristen33/jillybean
4S E East4Evil/sohcahtoa
4S E olegru - driver733
4S E bluecalm/redds
4S E CanadaGrl/Gerardo
4S E gnasher/catch22
4S E helene_t-agusaris
4S E mohitz/akjq
4S E rogerClee/cherdano
4S E ant590 - crayzeejim
4S E Codo-Fluffy
3S E tylere / bid_em_up
3C W zasanya/ravia6
2S W cascade kermit
2S W sallyally/joylson
2S E Siegmund/MSchmahl
1S E Flycycle/Wackojack
Na 0 j0i/gwnn
NA 0 Tomi2-JHDW
NA 0 Vampyr/Lamford
--Ben--

#2 User is offline   Codo 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,373
  • Joined: 2003-March-15
  • Location:Hamburg, Germany
  • Interests:games and sports, esp. bridge,chess and (beach-)volleyball

Posted 2010-July-26, 03:31

Hi Ben,

I try to understand you scoring:
We have 26 pairs bidding this hand.
So, if we had scored this hand, the top score had been 52 points, the worst zero.

The first 11 tied, so they had scored 42 Matchpoints.
The next 10 tied for 20 MPs.
The next three tied for 6 Mps
And one pair had earned 2 mps and one a zero.

So... IF we all we had played a tourney the mps had been 42:20:6:2:0 ,not 10:5:3:1:0.

How did you calculate the scores?
Kind Regards

Roland


Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
0

#3 User is offline   Hanoi5 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,083
  • Joined: 2006-August-31
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santiago, Chile
  • Interests:Bridge, Video Games, Languages, Travelling.

Posted 2010-July-26, 03:38

Scores are calculated as if EACH pair had played in a 13-table tournament. Getting to an awesome but yet almost impossible to bid contract gets you 12, so a most normal contract will get you a 10.

The rightsiding of the contract is the most important thing in this hand. I believe that after P-P-1-1-P-P West should bid 2.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


My YouTube Channel
0

#4 User is offline   bluecalm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 2007-January-22

Posted 2010-July-26, 08:17

Why 4 from E is that much worse ? K don't need to be offside.
For example we opened this hand 2NT and got to 4 from other side and I wouldn't expect to get so few MP's for that.
0

#5 User is offline   Codo 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,373
  • Joined: 2003-March-15
  • Location:Hamburg, Germany
  • Interests:games and sports, esp. bridge,chess and (beach-)volleyball

Posted 2010-July-26, 08:28

Because North has the ace. :)

In another hand, where you have play in 4 if opener and rebidder has the missing aces, you get a bad score for reaching game because one ace was offside.
Kind Regards

Roland


Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
0

#6 User is offline   Wackojack 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 925
  • Joined: 2004-September-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Interests:I have discovered that the water cooler is a chrono-synclastic infundibulum

Posted 2010-July-27, 03:56

The system were playing after strong 1c-(1h) was bid 1s with 5HCP and 5s. Partner didnt seem to be able to add 3+1 +1. Devaluing my hand I left it there. Otherwise we might have got to a wrong sided 4s via Jacoby 2NT.
May 2003: Mission accomplished
Oct 2006: Mission impossible
Soon: Mission illegal
0

#7 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2010-July-27, 05:20

We wrong-sided this:

1 (1) dbl [4 spades or 5 in a weakish hand]
2NT 3 [2NT = strong raise]
4

Obviously we should play 3 as foricng 3, but at some point in the past we decided it was too hard to make a general rule and too forgettable to make specific rules for each such situation. Oh well.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#8 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2010-July-27, 15:23

Codo, on Jul 26 2010, 04:31 AM, said:

Hi Ben,

I try to understand you scoring:
We have 26 pairs bidding this hand.
So, if we had scored this hand, the top score had been 52 points, the worst zero.

The first 11 tied, so they had scored 42 Matchpoints.
The next 10 tied for 20 MPs.
The next three tied for 6 Mps
And one pair had earned 2 mps and one a zero.

So... IF we all we had played a tourney the mps had been 42:20:6:2:0 ,not 10:5:3:1:0.

How did you calculate the scores?

I try to give the best contact you can reach as EW under the conditions given a 10, unless it is outstanding in which case it could get an 11 or 12. With that said, Hanoi5 is correct. I try to guess what the average result would be for different contracts based upon the EW hands consistent with NS bidding.

This is not always easy, because although one can calculate with the aid of simulation software the score for different contracts, one can't ignore that simulations use double dummy defense and declarer play. One has to take into account the real world expectations. So if you were to do this right, you would need to look at each simulation and say, what would teh opening lead be? How would declarer play, how would defense play? In other words, not take the double dummy result.

I do the best i can with the time i can contribute to this exercise. So here, I think reaching this 4S contract is great, especially from WEST. I estimated in my opinior that the field would not reach 4S by WEST in mass, so that "good contract" scores well. The fact that on the specific hand at the table the opener had the heart ACE=queen is immaterial for the score, what is the fact that opener has a.) and opening hand, and b.) long hearts both increase the odds he has the heart ace=queen. This makes spades a much better contract from WEST than East. I tried to factor that into account for 4S by East and various part scores, since clubs provides a place for losing hearts without a heart lead through the king.
--Ben--

#9 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,566
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2010-July-28, 00:49

Not hearing any complaints about the scoring, these scores are now official on this board.
--Ben--

#10 User is offline   bluecalm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 2007-January-22

Posted 2010-July-28, 01:42

Well, my complaint was that they didn't bid hearts at our table but we have half the score because N supposedly has hearts.

I guess it's just variance. Maybe next time they won't bid and it will be S who has hearts so we will get the points back :)
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users