[blackshoe]

peachy, on Jun 19 2010, 02:49 PM, said:

My gut feeling is that they forgot to list this one explicitly also as not alertable.

That may be, but one cannot rule on that basis.

Quote

Perhaps advice from ACBL might be in order, unless of course you are already 100% sure it is alertable.

Write to rulings@acbl.org and ask. Let us know what they say.

[barmar]

Phil, on Jun 19 2010, 02:53 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Jun 19 2010, 01:06 PM, said:

I don't understand looking for a fit in a major which as already been denied, or bidding an inverted minor raise with a four card major suit.  But I think the opponents should use this approach.

Why? Bidding an inverted 2♣ that may have a 4cM is a perfectly reasonable approach that many play. I think it works especially well when 1♣ is sh¤rt.

What does short club have to do with it? Short club just means that your 1♦ openings are more well defined, and 1♣ is more nebuous; there's no difference in the implication about majors.

Why would anyone play a style where you first start looking for a major fit on the 2 level?

Rather than alert control bids after a minor raise, I think it would make more sense to alert the minor raise if it could be hiding a 4-card major. But I suspect no jurisdiction requires this.

[Phil]

barmar, on Jun 19 2010, 11:29 PM, said:

Phil, on Jun 19 2010, 02:53 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Jun 19 2010, 01:06 PM, said:

I don't understand looking for a fit in a major which as already been denied, or bidding an inverted minor raise with a four card major suit.  But I think the opponents should use this approach.

Why? Bidding an inverted 2♣ that may have a 4cM is a perfectly reasonable approach that many play. I think it works especially well when 1♣ is sh¤rt.

What does short club have to do with it? Short club just means that your 1♦ openings are more well defined, and 1♣ is more nebuous; there's no difference in the implication about majors.

Why would anyone play a style where you first start looking for a major fit on the 2 level?

Rather than alert control bids after a minor raise, I think it would make more sense to alert the minor raise if it could be hiding a 4-card major. But I suspect no jurisdiction requires this.

You hold a 13 count with 4 spades and 5 clubs. Partner opens 1♦. Your call? 2♣ I hope. In this case you will frequently find your 4-4 fit at a higher level.

I think the short club reference has more to do with the fact that after 1♣ - 2♣, we may not have a real club fit. Therefore its perfectly acceptable to have responder show a good hand first with club length, before showing majors.

[aguahombre]

Phil, on Jun 19 2010, 11:08 PM, said:

You hold a 13 count with 4 spades and 5 clubs. Partner opens 1♦. Your call? 2♣ I hope. In this case you will frequently find your 4-4 fit at a higher level.

I think the short club reference has more to do with the fact that after 1♣ - 2♣, we may not have a real club fit. Therefore its perfectly acceptable to have responder show a good hand first with club length, before showing majors.

Of course if a raise to 2C is not really treated as a "raise" at all, but a game-forcing 2/1 new-suit bid, opener must show a four card major at his second turn.

I thought the discussion was about the alert requirements for follow-ups after inverted minor raises. If our side is not in a real inverted minor sequence, but rather in an exploration for another suit fit, I would be uncomfortable not alerting these quite natural bids which actually show a suit. It is so highly unexpected to most players familiar with inverted minors, that this is a real concern -- even though natural bids are not alertable.

[blackshoe]

An inverted minor raise denies a four card major, at least the way it's played around here. It says "we are going to game; we should look first for a NT game". So it doesn't make sense for opener to bid 2M looking for a fit, unless he has at least five — in which case he'll have more in his minor, and NT will be out of the picture.

What would you do as opener with

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after partner raises your 1 ♦ to 2?