[Free]

EricK, on Apr 27 2010, 07:14 PM, said:

Free, on Apr 27 2010, 12:25 PM, said:

Psyching is part of the game, so it is allowed.  There's no reason for the 2♠ bidder to alert his call and explain it to you that he psyched (because his partner is not aware of this).  Your agreement is dumb, but that doesn't mean you are.

I think it would improve the game immensely if people reported their psyching tendencies in this sort of situation.

I obviously wouldn't expect them to say when they are psyching, but to self alert every 2♠ bid in this sequence (for example) and say "I have been known to psyche this on occasion" seems to be true to the spirit of full disclosure in an online setting.

I disagree. The point of the psych is that it's so rare that partner won't expect it. Suppose 1 out of 5 times you'll bid 2♠ as a psych here (which is a lot btw). Say you really have ♠s and you explain this call is possible psych to your opponents. <sarcasm>I'm sure they will be very glad you alerted this 4/5 times where it wasn't necessary!</sarcasm>

Another point is that many people won't understand if you say "I have a tendancy to psych this with an average of 1/5 times". Either their English is poor, or your English is poor, or a combination, or they interprete it wrong, or they see "psych" and go berzerk, or whatever... You have very limited space to explain your call. You could use private chat ofcourse, but that won't beat the language barrier and the fear of psychs many people have.

Note that this is a situation known to pretty much everyone. 1♥-Dbl, 2♥-Dbl, 3♥-Dbl are all the same.

[nige1]

EricK, on Apr 27 2010, 07:14 PM, said:

I think it would improve the game immensely if people reported their psyching tendencies in this sort of situation.
I obviously wouldn't expect them to say when they are psyching, but to self alert every 2♠ bid in this sequence (for example) and say "I have been known to psyche this on occasion" seems to be true to the spirit of full disclosure in an online setting.

Free, on Apr 29 2010, 03:12 AM, said:

I disagree.  The point of the psych is that it's so rare that partner won't expect it.

I agree with free. If deviations are frequent enough for partner to anticipate them, then they aren't psychs. They constitute an understanding. It is an "either or" understanding, like the "either or" double, employed by Bluejak. It should be disclosed on your system card; if such an agreement is alertable, then partner should alert it (as Bluejak does).

A problem is that some of these "either or" understandings aren't allowed. Also, the members of a partnership may have different predilections in this area. If such a partnership insist on employing an unlicensed or asymmetric method, then they can't disclose it in the normal way. Instead, they resort to a concealed partnership understanding, which they rationalise as a "psych".

[paulg]

nige1, on Apr 28 2010, 04:15 AM, said:

Another double post. Sorry Too many windows open

That was dumb.

[TimG]

Chris3875, on Apr 27 2010, 06:26 PM, said:

I am a fairly low level player, so when my partner doubled the weak 2H bid, I thought - "opening hand, probably a negative double showing spades" - then to my surprise RHO comes in with 2S so I am now thinking "opening hand, probably not hearts or spades - could be minors" and with my opening hand with heart stopper and spades, 3 each of diamonds and clubs all I could think of to do was bid 2NT showing stoppers in both bid suits, which is where my partner left me.

Partner's opening bid plus your opening bid equals game; if you decide to bid NT, I think 3NT was in order.

[Chris3875]

Which would have gone off because ops held 10 hearts between them - I thought I was lucky to make 8 tricks. My reasoning with bidding 2NT was to show stoppers in both the bid suits (hearts and spades) and close to opening hand. I see now that a double would have been much better - but I wonder what my partner would have thought I had - minors ?

The more I play this game, the more I know I don't know.

[CamHenry]

Chris3875, on Apr 29 2010, 08:05 PM, said:

Which would have gone off because ops held 10 hearts between them - I thought I was lucky to make 8 tricks. My reasoning with bidding 2NT was to show stoppers in both the bid suits (hearts and spades) and close to opening hand. I see now that a double would have been much better - but I wonder what my partner would have thought I had - minors ?

The more I play this game, the more I know I don't know.

The advantage of a double is that it tells your partner you have some values - you may have a big hand with the minors, but I think 3H (cue) and then bidding a minor shows that better.

Another advantage of doubling here is that, if 2S _is_ a psych, partner will have spades as well - and can pass for penalties even if you've agreed it is a takeout double. If they run away, you know partner's got spades, and you've got spades, so you can take a shot at a spade contract.