[jonottawa]

North

♠AJx ♥98xx ♦AKJ9xx ♣-

South

♠KQ97xxx ♥AKJ ♦- ♣QTx

Uncontested auction (starting with N.)

1♦ - 1♠
2♦ - 3♣
3♥ - 3♠
5♠ - 6♠

[CSGibson]

I blame North. Choosing to show his 98xx heart suit instead of AJx spade support made this auction impossible. I mean, if N had simply bid 3♠ like a human, he probably hears a 4♥ cue-bid next (better than a 4♦ cuebid, as I don't think you should cue-bid shortness in the suit partner has bid naturally twice), and N can simply key card, knowing that S doesn't have the A of clubs. When S shows the K of hearts and the Q of spades after the Q ask, N would know that 7 spades has to have good play opposite his diamond suit and club void if S was good enough to cue-bid without direct minor suit controls.

[kenrexford]

I agree 100%. When in doubt, show support. I mean, this shouldn't be doubt, but if you actually are a lunatic and have doubt, agree spades. Life is easier when trumps are agreed.

[kfay]

WTF, when did N even ascertain the ♥ situation?

[peachy]

I almost posted something real nasty, then deleted it. Let the votes speak for themselves.

[mike777]

hate 3h prefer 3s

with that said.......I can understand missing 7s/

I think forum voters are a bit harsh here.....bidding 7 is not easy at the table.

[chasetb]

As much as I agree with everyone else who has posted here, what can 5♠ be taken as but GSF? Then 7♠ gets bid, and this post doesn't happen. North takes more of the blame, but South gets a little bit of it from me.

[jdonn]

5♠ isn't GSF, how could it be when he has xxxx of hearts? That being said south should have known to bid the grand over 5♠. But the worst bid was 3♠ because it's such an elementary and obvious situation.

[Codo]

I do not understand the system they play, but here is my guess:

1♦ 1 ♠ nice
2 ♦ I seldom raise with just 3 cards, but here, I would easily.
3 ♣ I guess NMF ?
3♥ Maybe they play a style where 2♥ instead of 3 ♣ had been nonforcing, so he had to show his 4 hearts first?
3♠ now sends the message: Forcing with spades
If I got it right so far, they are endplayed. North has a great hand, but no clear bid to show it.

Had I been here, I had been satisfied by reaching 6 ♠.

So I blame south- for not raising with his 3460 shape directly and for the blunder to bid 3 ♥.Even if partner is 5/4 in th majors, spades will often play much better her then hearts. You can ruff with the short hand and/ or you have a long suit to park the losers.

And as others said: It is possible (but not certain) to reach 7 ♠ after you showed your support at a better level.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 3S instead of 3H is clear cut, sry - what is 3H?
#2 I dont think that it is easy to find the grand, because
one needs to communicate the void in clubs, which
may be easier, if north had bid 2H instead of 3C, but
maybe 2H was systemic not possible.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

In the US, what is the sequence 1D-1S-2D-3S played as ?

We play 1D-1S-2D-2S as constructive NF, so 3S is GF with a bit to spare (but suit or hand unsuitable for strong jump shift) and solves the problem.

1D-1S
2D-3S
4C-4H (Cuebidding style 1st or 2nd)
5C-5D (5D is a short type control, or would have bid 4D last time)
6D-6H (6D will be the ace after the 5D bid, 6H must be checking trumps as everything else there, would have bid 7 himself if trumps were great)
7S

I also hate bidding 3C on this sort of hand just because nothing is forcing. To get round this we play 2H as a relay over 1D-1/2suit-2D, but if you simply agree that it's nat/forcing it's got to be better than 3C here.

1D-1S
2D-2H
3H-3S
4S

Now it's slightly awkward how to proceed, if partner is going to show 2 aces, blackwood is good, and also your void showing arrangements in blackwood are important here. If he's going to show one and has no way of showing one + void, then you can't use it.

Clearly ...4N-6C-7S gets you there, it's more awkward if you can't use blackwood.

... 5H
6C-6H
?S

Is how it may well finish, and opener may not wish to blast 7 opposite a trump suit of unknown quality, unlike the 3S auction where partner's spades are already known to be long and at least adequate.

I hate the 3C bid and hate 3H at least as much (3S looks normal to me). If you play 2H and 3S NF over 2D, you have a problem, get a new system.

[Fluffy]

preempting yourself with 3♣ when 2♥ was avaible and was a better description didn't help much, but I understand some people who think bridge is a partscore game play this as no forcing.

bidding 3♥ is LOL, north didn't want to show hearts, he wanted to ASK ABOUT STOPPER! lol. Such a masterminder.

[mcphee]

Who knows that this auction showed, for me 2H would have been forcing(how can it not be) and I prefer that over 3C big time. So for N to introduce H at the 3 level is a joke, I just do not get it. The 3C bid mentioned in this post as NMF just makes no sense, 3C in this position creates a GF. Are players really suggesting that with invitational hands we drive to the 3 level on what might be a poor fitting hand?

Out of 100% blame N gets 1000. As for reaching the grand, that would be the least of my concerns after seeing this auction.

[Codo]

mcphee, on Mar 25 2010, 08:37 PM, said:

Who knows that this auction showed, for me 2H would have been forcing(how can it not be) and I prefer that over 3C big time. So for N to introduce H at the 3 level is a joke, I just do not get it. The 3C bid mentioned in this post as NMF just makes no sense, 3C in this position creates a GF. Are players really suggesting that with invitational hands we drive to the 3 level on what might be a poor fitting hand?

Out of 100% blame N gets 1000. As for reaching the grand, that would be the least of my concerns after seeing this auction.

What is your rant about nmf? New minor forcing says, that the bid of a new minor (here club) is forcing. English is not so difficult after all. And nobody stated that nmf is just inivitational at the 3. level.

According 2 ♥. YWe may discuss whether or not this bid should be forcing or not. But I know for sure that there are several partnerships who play it non forcing, so this is a possibility.

So you think the bidding was a joke, I try to understand it and interprete it in a way so that it makes sense.

[ONEferBRID]

I agree with Gibson ( and Ken and the rest ).... about not showing A J x support first.

Also, after Opener's rebid of his minor, "cheapest new suit forcing" ( 2H! ) works better than 3C!
because of the saved bidding space :

1D - 1S
2D - 2H!
2S - 4C! ( splinter )
4NT - 5NT ( 2 + Cl-void )
6C* ( next step = sQ-ask) - 6D ( sQ + dK )

7S [ hopefully able to sluff 2 ( of 4 ) losers on dAK and ruff remaining 2 losers without an overruff ]
____________________________________________________
* Well, there are problems with the Q-ask bid.What if Responder had the sQ but NO dK... then there is a problem with the reply.

So, eventho it works here, I'd probably just wimp out with 6S after 5NT.

[CSGibson]

I just want to say that the 2♥ bidders also potentially create a problem - I mean, it is forcing the way I play, but it is forcing and natural, meaning that partner will (correctly) support hearts, allowing for maximum ruffing with his bad trumps in the presumed 4-4 fit. But if 2♥ is forcing and natural, then there is even less excuse for N's flight of fancy with 3♥ - That cannot be what partner is asking about with 3♣.

[jonottawa]

I was South fwiw. I loathe pard's auction (though not as much as his worst sequence of the round) but wonder if I still should have gotten it right. They found it at the other table.

Opponent on lead asked what 5♠ shows and I ended up calling the director because he didn't want to take 'no agreement' for an answer. Was glad the lead didn't matter but would have been nice to find the grand (finished tied for 23rd instead of 18th, not a huge difference but something.)

[gnasher]

Codo, on Mar 25 2010, 01:19 PM, said:

What is your rant about nmf? New minor forcing says, that the bid of a new minor (here club) is forcing. English is not so difficult after all.

English may not be difficult, but bridge terminology sometimes is. "New Minor Forcing" doesn't just mean that it's a new minor and it's forcing. It means that it's a new minor, it's foricng, and it's artificial.

Using this 3♣ as an artificial force is playable (though it's better to use 2♥), but I'm sure that when it was bid at the table it was intended as natural.