[sathyab]

Scoring: MP

1nt(15-17)-2s(S+m)-?

---

You're West. You play doubles at the 2-level as Penalty. When a major suit bid is natural, even if it includes another suit, you play 2nt as Lebensohl, so 2nt is not an option here. But I'll include it here just in case someone plays it as natural and furthermore thinks that 2nt is right for them. Likewise if someone plays double of 2s as Negative and if they think this is the right hand for it (unlikely), you can exercise that choice.

[gwnn]

I wouldn't x for penalty with 0 controls, but it could work out of course, they will often go down.

[Siegmund]

If it were one-suited spades, the penalty X would be obvious. Here, the main downside of the double is that it 3m is likely to play two tricks better than 2S.

I am doubling anyway. At least that way if we get lucky and they are in trouble in 3m, partner won't be afraid to double that too.

[jjbrr]

I'd just pass.

[Apollo81]

I would make a penalty double so that if they bid 3♣, partner can hit it with the appropriate hand.

[whereagles]

Double. It's our hand and they stepped in at the wrong time.

[jdonn]

Why do I even want partner to hit 3♣? Don't I have no tricks?

[Fluffy]

yeah, pass, double might alert them that they better play in another suit

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

since I play X as pen., thats what I will bid.
The only downside is, that the X may generate a forcing Pass seq.,
but than at least we have the bal. of power, and they are playing on
the 3 level, with only a 8 card fit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

Unless of course it's a 9 card fit.

[Codo]

jdonn, on Mar 24 2010, 06:36 AM, said:

Unless of course it's a 9 card fit.

Maybe even a double fit...

[sathyab]

The full hand turns out to be:

Scoring: MP

---

I am all for getting in over 1nt when non-vul, but I must say that's one of the worst overcalls I have ever seen. The limited high cards you have are in short suits and to think of your clubs as a suit is a bad joke, but one that works on this hand. The best that EW can do on this hand is defend 2♠ for -1 for Avg-. When partner doubled, and I have a lot of sympathy for his action, North bid 2nt for minors and they found their club fit and I could not help doubling that with 4 Aces. Had my ♦ spot been the 9 instead of 6, a trump lead/shift holds 3♣ to 8 tricks. When partner led the ♥Q, I tried a low trump hoping partner had the stiff 9, and that declarer had overcalled on QJxxx Kx Q 7xxxx which honestly is a better overcall than the given hand. If my partner had the stiff 9 of ♣s, my trump gets promoted eventually for -2. But on this hand, 3♣ was cold.

Most Souths pass this hand including jdonn's opponents, who in addition let him/his partner make 8 tricks in 1nt. Here're the MPs in our 3 section comparison (approximately the same elsewhere) on a 38 top.

1nt = +90 =====> 15

1nt +1, +120 =====> 34

1s -1, +50 =====> 13

3c=, -110 ======> 3

3xX=, -470 ======> -

[jdonn]

sathyab, on Mar 25 2010, 05:40 PM, said:

Most Souths pass this hand including jdonn's opponents, who in addition let him/his partner make 8 tricks in 1nt.

I think you are mixing us up with a different pair, we weren't actually in your session that round. But my story on this hand is not happy either. After 1NT pass I made the perhaps questionable decision to respond stayman and hope for a fit, which north doubled. When partner bid 2♥ and south bid 3♣ I thought 3♥ by me was just competitive but partner thought it was invitational and bid game. So the combination of all the decisions sent our score on a ride approximately like this: +90, +110, -110, -100, and finally to -200 for a big fat 0 of our own. Well not quite as fat as yours but just as useful.

[peachy]

I voted Pass originally and still voting pass with the given hand. Take the plus that is coming (if it is coming) and don't drive them to a better fit (if they have one). After 2S was foolishly doubled for penalty, it is not a crime - just a misdemeanor - by E to Double 3C. Afterall, it is normal to expect a penalty double to contain some trump tricks as well as other stuff. However, spade tricks in a club contract are not going to do much for us.
The 2S bidder gambled and won.

[sathyab]

jdonn, on Mar 25 2010, 05:48 PM, said:

sathyab, on Mar 25 2010, 05:40 PM, said:

Most Souths pass this hand including jdonn's opponents, who in addition let him/his partner make 8 tricks in 1nt.

I think you are mixing us up with a different pair, we weren't actually in your session that round. But my story on this hand is not happy either. After 1NT pass I made the perhaps questionable decision to respond stayman and hope for a fit, which north doubled. When partner bid 2♥ and south bid 3♣ I thought 3♥ by me was just competitive but partner thought it was invitational and bid game. So the combination of all the decisions sent our score on a ride approximately like this: +90, +110, -110, -100, and finally to -200 for a big fat 0 of our own. Well not quite as fat as yours but just as useful.

Sorry about the mix-up.

A while ago Larry Cohen was recommending Stayman on a similar hand, the theory being that the hand is pure and ought to play better in 2M if there's a fit (he was hoping to pass a 2♦ response from partner which may not at all work well, but that's the risk he takes I suppose). The most questionable bid is overcalling with the South hand and that of course is the one that gets the most reward.

[sathyab]

peachy, on Mar 25 2010, 05:51 PM, said:

I voted Pass originally and still voting pass with the given hand.  Take the plus that is coming (if it is coming) and don't drive them to a better fit (if they have one).  After 2S was foolishly doubled for penalty, it is not a crime - just a misdemeanor - by E to Double 3C.  Afterall, it is normal to expect a penalty double to contain some trump tricks as well as other stuff.  However, spade tricks in a club contract are not going to do much for us.
The 2S bidder gambled and won.

Let me get this: doubling 2♠ is foolish, doubling 3♣ thereafter is a misdemeanor but not a crime (thanks in advance for accepting my plea-bargain). But South merely "gambled" and won. Wow.

[aguahombre]

jdonn, on Mar 25 2010, 04:48 PM, said:

sathyab, on Mar 25 2010, 05:40 PM, said:

Most Souths pass this hand including jdonn's opponents, who in addition let him/his partner make 8 tricks in 1nt.

I think you are mixing us up with a different pair, we weren't actually in your session that round. But my story on this hand is not happy either. After 1NT pass I made the perhaps questionable decision to respond stayman and hope for a fit, which north doubled. When partner bid 2♥ and south bid 3♣ I thought 3♥ by me was just competitive but partner thought it was invitational and bid game. So the combination of all the decisions sent our score on a ride approximately like this: +90, +110, -110, -100, and finally to -200 for a big fat 0 of our own. Well not quite as fat as yours but just as useful.

100 percent blame to opener for thinking that stayman and then a raise was invitational.

[jdonn]

100% credit to aquahombre for learning the ways of jdonn sarcasm.

[xcurt]

peachy, on Mar 25 2010, 05:51 PM, said:

I voted Pass originally and still voting pass with the given hand.  Take the plus that is coming (if it is coming) and don't drive them to a better fit (if they have one).  After 2S was foolishly doubled for penalty, it is not a crime - just a misdemeanor - by E to Double 3C.  Afterall, it is normal to expect a penalty double to contain some trump tricks as well as other stuff.  However, spade tricks in a club contract are not going to do much for us.
The 2S bidder gambled and won.

Doubling 3C with the 4 aces is automatic (after partner showed "values" by hitting 2S).

[Echognome]

Our auction went 1NT - All Pass.

It crossed my mind to bid "Gambling Stayman", but decided to pass. Partner thought 2♥ would be the normal contract (not sure why) and played for 8 tricks. I didn't watch the play (as I normally try to tune out while dummy) and he made 8 tricks. Sorry I cannot enlighten anyone on the play. But I think we were in Sathya's section, so that accounts for the result.