[peachy]

ACBL, nationally rated event IMP Pairs. None vul.
Auction, with no alerts, my partner opening:
1NT (Dbl) P (P) P

1NT=12-14
To be sure the unalerted Dbl is penalty, I looked at my LHO's computer processed system card. The explanation line in the card was showing suit symbols separated by slashes and some words of text which was too small for me to see. RHO was sitting on his sys card. Being late in the round, I didn't ask what the Dbl meant, and assumed it was artificial because of the string of stuff on the explanation line, and that they just forgot to alert.

When the smoke cleared, and RHO's card appeared from under his butt to enter the score, I saw RHO handwritten card show "Penalty". I then asked LHO to read what her card said and she said the suit symbols and text etc was continuation from the line below because all the text didn't fit in the line below.

Should I have asked even when the Dbl was not alerted? We could have gotten off for -500 in 2SX instead of -800 in 1NTX. Over a penalty Dbl, we play *Systems On* so via Garbage Stayman we obviously find our fit. Opponents are cold for 3NT and the scoring is cross IMPs.

I didn't call the TD. Should I have?

[paulg]

In an environment where people routinely sit on their convention cards and fail to exchange them at the start of the round, where the burden of 'protecting yourself' is a lot higher than other jurisdictions, and where the opponents have not transgressed significantly, I feel a call to the Director would not have been fruitful.

I do have more sympathy than the above might imply. I hope you were able to still qualify.

Cheers

Paul

[debrose]

There is no chance you would have received any adjustment, and if you appealed I think it likely would have been ruled an appeal without merit. OTOH, based on my experience, if the double were something other than penalty, and you were damaged by assuming it was penalty because of the non-alert, in that case you'd likely get redress. The Alert procedure is taken much more seriously by most players, at least in the U.S., than the convention card.
In spite of the (daily) notice in the Daily Bulletin, the requirement to have legibly filled out convention cards on the table is mostly ignored. And even if the card you'd looked at clearly spelled out that Double was artificial vs. a WEAK NT, it's not clear to me that their non-alert wouldn't trump that - or at least require you to protect yourself by asking. I'm not saying that I think this is how it should be - I'd like to see everyone have identically and accurately filled out cards, which they are required to hand to the opponents at the beginning of the round.
If you'd called the director, I think it's possible the opponents would have received some sort of penalty or warning for not having two identically filled out cards. From what I can tell such penalties are somewhat arbitrarily doled out.

[bluejak]

I might have called the TD myself, but not with much hope of anything except making a point.

[FrancesHinden]

I agree with debrose.

The double wasn't alerted, which implies it was for penalties.

You looked at their card, and couldn't read it so you didn't learn anything (perhaps the stuff you couldn't read said "penalties except by a passed hand when we play...").

You assumed something that you couldn't actually read meant that a non-alerted double was artificial and they had forgotten to alert. You didn't ask to clarify, which clearly you could have done because of "lack of time" - how long exactly does it take to ask "is that penalties?" and get an answer?

You would have approximately zero chance of getting an adjustment in your favour. The opponents might have been told to make their card clearer, but that's it.

[peachy]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 14 2010, 10:08 AM, said:

I agree with debrose.

The double wasn't alerted, which implies it was for penalties.

You looked at their card, and couldn't read it so you didn't learn anything (perhaps the stuff you couldn't read said "penalties except by a passed hand when we play...").

You assumed something that you couldn't actually read meant that a non-alerted double was artificial and they had forgotten to alert. You didn't ask to clarify, which clearly you could have done because of "lack of time" - how long exactly does it take to ask "is that penalties?" and get an answer?

You would have approximately zero chance of getting an adjustment in your favour. The opponents might have been told to make their card clearer, but that's it.

I also agree with debrose. Assume it is penalty if it is not alerted and let TD sort it out afterward if it wasn't.

[jdonn]

The lesson isn't to assume anything. The lesson is if you can't tell what it is from the card then just ask them. Being behind in the round is not much of an excuse at all...

[barmar]

If the Double line indeed had suit symbols on it, I don't see why she should be penalized for thinking those were part of the meaning of double. While it may not have been clear what the meaning of the double was, it seems like it was clearly something other than penalty. Does she really have to protect herself from assuming that something written on the Double line is part of the meaning of double?

There's an extra line below this, labeled "Other". That's where I would put something that doesn't fit above.

[FrancesHinden]

barmar, on Mar 15 2010, 10:04 AM, said:

If the Double line indeed had suit symbols on it, I don't see why she should be penalized for thinking those were part of the meaning of double. While it may not have been clear what the meaning of the double was, it seems like it was clearly something other than penalty. Does she really have to protect herself from assuming that something written on the Double line is part of the meaning of double?

No, but the double line on my convention card says "x pen but by PH 4M+5m", admittedly no suit symbols - but the point is that you can have stuff under the double line, that relates to the meaning of double, that doesn't mean it isn't penalties.