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Lead Problem vs Slam What do you lead and why?

Poll: ypur lead (33 member(s) have cast votes)

ypur lead

  1. small spade (18 votes [54.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.55%

  2. spade king (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. the heart (1 votes [3.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

  4. any diamond (2 votes [6.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

  5. club 9 (8 votes [24.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.24%

  6. small club (4 votes [12.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.12%

  7. other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-February-28, 22:02

Siegmund, on Feb 27 2010, 10:24 PM, said:

Of course I am used to the fact that the most aggressive lead in sight always wins in a lead-vs-slam poll even when it doesnt work at the table :D

Pretty sure a passive lead always wins vs 6N heh. Aggressive leads generally win in polls vs suit slams because usually they are making unless you have some nasty surprise for them if you defend passively. The best thing you have going for you is the initiative, so that you can set up a trick and hopefully get in and cash your trick before stuff goes away.

On this hand we have a stiff trump, and if I thought they were 4-1 for the opps I would go passive on the basis that we might beat them with passive defense since that is a nice surprise for them that will help us. Here they super accepted so I don't really think that's the case.

We have xxx diamonds, that looks quite bad for us. If they were in a close slam, that will probably help them make.

So I'm hoping to set up a trick. A club is better for that because we're shorter, but it requires more from partner, basically the KQ or the KJ over the Q maybe (the K over dummy's ace seems unlikely given that LHO didn't bid 5C). KTxx would be a clear winner over xxxxx to me. Also, hopefully LHO won't have a stiff spade since they didn't bid 4S, in which case my length will not increase the chance that even if we hit partner's queen we don't set up a trick (which is the downside of length).

Thus a spade seems right to me for setting up a trick, and that seems like the right plan to me (and as you said, is the default plan vs 6 of a suit unless you have some reason to think you will beat it on passive defense).

It seems like a much more narrow target to try to beat them on passive defense and fear a layout where a spade gives them their 12th trick (because if passive defense beats it, we might just have 2 tricks in the red suits or whatever and the spade didn't hurt us), than to try and set up a trick then get in and cash that trick. Obv it's possible they're just on a spade hook or something and a spade lead sets it, but it seems less likely than the times we gain.

I don't understand your comment though, were you implying that people always lead aggro vs 6 of a suit on paper even though it's anti percentage or that they wouldn't do it at the table? Maybe it's antipercentage, but it is the current conventional wisdom and it is what most experts do at the table ime, so I don't think anyone is being disingenuous.
The artist formerly known as jlall
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#22 User is offline   cloa513 

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Posted 2010-February-28, 22:25

Are all the bids natural other than 2C and 2D?
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#23 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-February-28, 23:56

I strongly dispute that aggressive leads against freely bid suit slams work well in theory but not in practice. I have been using them at the table for years and they have worked quite a lot of times! Also when it gives up a trick that often proves to be a useless trick because of discards. I believe 100% in a spade here.
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#24 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 03:48

I think it's clear RHO has A and a control, so I don't like the . If they'd just blast to 6 without the 5 bid, I'd definitely lead .

Here I'd lead small
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#25 User is offline   bftboy 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 11:01

I'm a strong believer in aggressive leads against slams. But on this auction a lead simply seems more likely to cost us a trick than to build one. The actual result of any lead selected is interesting, but immaterial to the problem. :blink:
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#26 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 13:45

lmilne, on Feb 28 2010, 10:02 PM, said:

jdeegan, on Feb 28 2010, 01:01 PM, said:

gwnn, on Feb 28 2010, 08:45 AM, said:

jdeegan, on Feb 28 2010, 02:39 AM, said:

:ph34r: or

Leading the is out since it could roll up the suit.
 
A is nearly as bad, if not worse.  RHO has the ace and 22+ HCP - so, leading around into the possible wheel is BAD, esp. when I have FIVE .  Neither opponent has advertised a long suit other than , so a passive defense should be OK. Leading a , I would be playing pard for the queen plus an entry - if the entry is an ace, then they have only 31 HCP.  If it is an offside king (probably the king) then what's the hurry?  RHO has a balanced hand.  Wait on the trick and hope for the best.

and leads are clear errors, but I don't see too much to choose between the other two suits.  On the actual hand, the was the ONLY lead to allow the contract to make.

im sorry maybe i didnt understand were you looking for advice or looking forward to lecturing the whole forums? either way is fine but it's usually better if you pre-alert.


:D Sry. Next time I will pre-alert. Just trying to gauge the quality of commentators. It seems they are well-read, but not very well-educated.

leaders might consider buying Mike Lawrence's CD's on bidding and play for a few hundred bucks. One of them teaches about opening leads. You learn a checklist to consider which includes evaluating the auction, counting the outstanding HCP's, etc. Why spent the time to pursue a hobby unless you know what you are doing?

whats with all the smiley faces followed by insulting a ton of players who (you would think) have reasons for their plays?

btw no one cares what the result on the hand was, that is completely irrelevant. run a sim, maybe someone will listen. i couldn't care less whether best play results in a contract going down. i'm interested in playing best bridge.

:D Trust me, bubba, my smiley faces are NOT laughing with you. Curious how thin-skinned some bridge players seem to be, esp. when that is so detrimental when it comes to playing a good game. Actually, I really think my analysis of the lead problem in question was pretty good. Mike Lawrence's CD lessons would improve the game of many of the people who post here. But, as you may have begun to realize, none of this was really the purpose of this excercise.
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#27 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 13:48

Where do I send in my $20 for the lesson series?

Seriously, wow...
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#28 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 14:00

I have more cats fwiw
OK
bed
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#29 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 18:33

cats
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#30 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 18:39

=^..^=___/
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#31 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 18:45

hm is that a cat with a hockey stick?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#32 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 18:55

New mission, all forums participants must change their avatars to a cat. Who's with me!

PS I'm a dog person.
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#33 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 18:58

Quote

PS I'm a dog person.
I can tell :)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#34 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 20:34

jdonn, on Mar 1 2010, 07:55 PM, said:

New mission, all forums participants must change their avatars to a cat. Who's with me!

PS I'm a dog person.

I'm in ldo
OK
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#35 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2010-March-01, 23:24

Pussy cat army FTW.
Wayne Somerville
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#36 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-March-02, 03:26

jdonn, on Mar 2 2010, 01:55 AM, said:

New mission, all forums participants must change their avatars to a cat.

Will this do?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#37 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-March-02, 07:25

to a cat? I am a FluffyDog!!
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#38 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2010-March-02, 10:05

jdonn, on Mar 1 2010, 07:55 PM, said:

New mission, all forums participants must change their avatars to a cat. Who's with me!

PS I'm a dog person.

Prize to best cat?
Kevin Fay
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#39 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-March-02, 10:15

Define "best." In avatar form?
OK
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#40 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-March-02, 10:16

also, lol'd at pooltuna's catfish. genius.
OK
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