[Bende]

I thought it would be interesting to hear what the sequence 1♣-1♦; 1♥-1♠; 1NT-2♣ means in your different systems.

In ours, it means invitational values with 44 in the majors and at least 3 clubs. Opener has shown 11-13 balanced without a four card major.

[aguahombre]

1c-1D (denies major unless game force)
1H(Unbalanced hand)- 1S artifical game force
1NT(probably 3-4-1-5 because 4-4-1-4 would have opened differently)-2C sets trumps, but not as huge as 1C-2D to start with, or not as many clubs as 1C-2D, then club support.

[Trinidad]

Just for fun.

With one partner (Nat, 5 card M):
1♣       "SemiNAT", 11-23, 2+♣
      1♦ 4+♦, 6+ points, no Walsh
1♥       2+♣, 4(+)♥, 11-18
      1♠ fourth suit forcing (not my choice, but you need two to play bridge)
1NT      12-14 BAL, 3=4=3=3, 3=4=2=4 or 2=4=3=4
      2♣ Natural and forcing to at least 2 of responder's first suit: (that means 2♦ )

I don't think it makes much sense, but that's what it means.

With the other (in a strong club context)

1♣       ART, 17+
      1♦ ART, 0-7
1♥       any 23+ or 21-22 BAL or 17-22 with 5+♥
      1♠ relay, denying various hands, such as 5-7 with 3♥ or 0-3 single suiters
1NT     17-20, exactly 5♥ + 4♠ or 4(+)♣ (NF)
      2♣ to play opposite 5♥+4(+)♣

Rik

[helene_t]

Playing Walsh, I think it is GF with some sort of club fit.

Playing up the line, I think it's to play.

With Shogi (Playing T-Walsh), it's a 2nd relay (1♠ was the first relay)

With Manudude03, playing T-Walsh, I think it must be to play. 1♠ was natural and NF.

With gwnn, playing strong club, 2♣ is to play. 1♥ was Kokish and 1♠ 2nd negative I think.

[hrothgar]

1♣ = strong artificial and forcing
1♦ = game force, denies any 5440
1♥ = non minimum strong club opener, prefers to ask rather than show
1♠ = Two suited with Hearts OR Single Suited with a red suit
1N = Relay
2♣ = Single suited with Diamonds OR 2 suited with ♦ + ♥

[jdonn]

To play. 4153 for example (it's very likely opener has 5 clubs and there could be a notrump problem in either major).

[JanM]

OK, I'll bite, since my meaning is so different
1♣ - clubs or balanced 15-19
1♦ - 4+ hearts, can be very weak
1♥ - balanced 15-bad 17 or unbalanced with 3 hearts
1♠ - asks, can still be weak
1NT - balanced 15-17
2♣ - invitational checkback, responder has finally shown some values, but not enough to force to game; opener bids 2♦ with either 2 hearts or a minimum, 2♥ with most hands with 3 hearts, 2♠ with a good hand with 43 in the Majors, 3♥ with a really good hand with 3 hearts.

[blackshoe]

Opener is 2=4=2=5 with about 12-14 HCP. Responder has about 11-12 HCP and is 4=2=4=3 or 4=1=5=3.

[mike777]

Bende, on Nov 14 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

I thought it would be interesting to hear what the sequence 1♣-1♦; 1♥-1♠; 1NT-2♣ means in your different systems.

In ours, it means invitational values with 44 in the majors and at least 3 clubs. Opener has shown 11-13 balanced without a four card major.

Walsh style:


1s=art, game force. Responder has real diamonds. Maybe...AK....x.....AKxxx....Qxxxx
2c=agree clubs.


opener has 4h and an unbalanced hand maybe:


QJx...AKxx...x.....Jxxxx

[Mbodell]

I think it is awesome that there are so many different meanings for this innocuous seeming auction. That is one of the things that I think makes bridge interesting. For me, the vulnerability actually changes slightly the meaning of this auction.

1♣ - art. forcing, when white any 16+, when red 16+ unbal or 18+ bal
1♦ - art. negative, any shape, usually 0-7 but any hand with fewer than 2 controls (A=2, K=1) bids this.
1♥ - kokish puppet, either hearts or a non-minimum balanced hand
1♠ - art. and forced.
1nt - balanced hand, if we were white this is 19-21. If we were red this is 20-21.
2♣ - puppet to 2♦, keri, could be to play, usually would be some sort of game invite or game force about to reveal itself in one more round.

We don't know much at all about shapes, just opener has at least 2 in every suit. could have a 5 card major or 6 card minor. But really, most likely, this is just a 6 bid sequence (7 if you count the 2♦ that is coming) that gets us to the point of a standard player opening 2nt with responder having had a couple of extra choices because of the extra space.

[kgr]

1♣-        at least 2c♣
     1♦     transfer ♥
1♥-        3c♥ forcing
   1♠      4c♥, 4c♠ forcing
1NT-     12-14; 4/5c♣;3c♥, No 4c♠;
    2♣    To play; weak 4144

(This is different if 1♣ is opened in 3rd hand. No T-Walsh then)

[jikl]

Not that I play much any more, but here is what it would be from back then:

1♣ 4+ ♣ (not 12-14 bal)
1♦ natural (5)6+ probably denies 5♦ and 4♣ and 10+ (forcing)
1♥ shows 5+♣ and 4♥ (forcing) (all balanced 15-18 would now bid 1NT with a checkback of sorts) denies a 4414 15-18
1♠ naturalish suggesting misfit but not really suited for NT from that side (forcing) so could be a complete lie just wanting to hear what comes next
1NT minimum, hand not suited to open an offshape weak NT (points in short suits), denies a 4405, denies a 0445, denies a 4414 with a stiff king or A
2♣ to play, probably 4153, could easily be 4252 and not suited to NT

I know it is ancient stuff, but saw nothing else here similar

Sean

[olliebol]

Play with the regular partner:

1♣ 2 plus cards practically forcing, 1♦ relay ( can be very weak), 1♥ relay ( now the weak 0-5 pts responses with 5 plus hearts pass), 1♠ relay (not hands with 44 majors,6 to 10 pts, they respond 1 nt here, 1nt now finally by opener shows a 12 -14 nt. After that 2♣ is a game forcing relay looking for a 4-4 fit and now 4-crd suits are being bid from the bottom up. (2nt is 3334 and 3♣promisses 5 ♣


I also try this with pick up partners on bbo.

[gwnn]

Opener has 2+ clubs and 4 hearts and a spade stop probably and not 3 diamonds. Responder forced to game and has 4+ diamonds and has 5+ clubs I think? Not sure.

With Helene when we play strong club 2♣ is stayman of course since opener has just promised 18+ and now responder has game interest opp 19-21.

[helene_t]

gwnn, on Nov 15 2009, 05:14 PM, said:

With Helene when we play strong club 2♣ is stayman of course since opener has just promised 18+ and now responder has game interest opp 19-21.

Yes of course, good that u put that straight.

[Free]

In the system I play most at this time, it's a puppet to 2♦:
1♣ - 1♦ (nat 3+♣ ; Walsh)
1♥ - 1♠ (forces 1♠ various hands ; obligated)
1NT - 2♣ (18-19HCP balanced ; 2-way checkback)

[Fluffy]

standard for me would be 4SF + raise, so strong with clubs

on Viking club

1♣-1♦ strong - negative
1♥-1♠ very strong - double negative
1NT-2♣ balanced - weak stayman

[jdonn]

Perhaps a more interesting question, how long could it go on in your system before something extremely strange or anti-systemic occurs? For example if playing my strong club system it could go

1♣ 1♦
1♥ 1♠
1NT 2♣
2♦ 2♥
2♠ 2NT
3♣

(This actually has more to do with my weird ideas about garbage stayman followups than it does with anything pertaining to the strong club.) And then I don't think a 3♦ bid exists. Can someone go farther? I wouldn't be surprised.

[Fluffy]

I think with a natural approach you can go even further since oyu are in a GF situation ad can show shape, honnors and controls, it will end when the natural 12-15 balanced hand cannot make any more cues.

[aguahombre]

this is a wonderful thread. OP gave what the sequence meant to him, and asked what it meant in other people's systems.

So many versions of strong club, short club, standard, and 2/1 were given as requested, and not one person criticized anyone else's choice...is this a record?