[ArtK78]

I play a different sort of 3 of a minor opening than most - 3 of a minor shows a preemptive hand but a suit headed by the AQ or AK or better (the person who introduced this idea to me told me it was a Barry Crane gadget). Given that, my choice would be between opening 3♣ or 5♣ rather than everyone else's choice between 1♣ and 5♣.

If I did open 3♣ and it was not passed out (how could it be passed out?) I could rebid 5♣. Partner would certainly be surprised to hear that, but he would be able to work out that I had a preemptive hand with about 9 clubs headed by the AQ or AK or better.

[Phil]

ArtK78, on Apr 27 2009, 11:58 AM, said:

I play a different sort of 3 of a minor opening than most - 3 of a minor shows a preemptive hand but a suit headed by the AQ or AK or better (the person who introduced this idea to me told me it was a Barry Crane gadget). Given that, my choice would be between opening 3♣ or 5♣ rather than everyone else's choice between 1♣ and 5♣.

If I did open 3♣ and it was not passed out (how could it be passed out?) I could rebid 5♣. Partner would certainly be surprised to hear that, but he would be able to work out that I had a preemptive hand with about 9 clubs headed by the AQ or AK or better.

3♣ makes my positively ill, TV Director or no TV Director.

Imagine poor partner with a 4441 14 count....

[Apollo81]

I agree with Phil. At any other colors I would just open 5 for the preemptive value, and expect to occasionally be raised to a making slam. By opening 5♣ here at W/R we will miss virtually all good small slams, and maybe even some grands.

[ArtK78]

Phil, on Apr 27 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Apr 27 2009, 11:58 AM, said:

I play a different sort of 3 of a minor opening than most - 3 of a minor shows a preemptive hand but a suit headed by the AQ or AK or better (the person who introduced this idea to me told me it was a Barry Crane gadget).  Given that, my choice would be between opening 3♣ or 5♣ rather than everyone else's choice between 1♣ and 5♣.

If I did open 3♣ and it was not passed out (how could it be passed out?) I could rebid 5♣.  Partner would certainly be surprised to hear that, but he would be able to work out that I had a preemptive hand with about 9 clubs headed by the AQ or AK or better.

3♣ makes my positively ill, TV Director or no TV Director.

Imagine poor partner with a 4441 14 count....

I don't have to argue the merits of the method. What I can say is that it gives you numerous opportunities to bid a cold 3NT with confidence that, playing normal methods, you would never have the ability to do, and you can also make some great penalty doubles knowing that partner's minor suit is headed by the AQ or AK.

It has been related to me that the main reason why Barry Crane used this method is that he came to the conclusion that 3 of a minor preempts are not very effective. So he gave them up in favor of this more constructive method. I can say, having used it for about 4 years, that I don't miss not opening KQJxxxx of clubs at the 3 level.

One should not criticise the method without any experience playing it or against it. Of course, if it actually makes you physically ill, you can forward the doctor's bill to me.

By the way, I never said that I would open 3♣ on this hand playing my method. But it is a thought. And would partner be any better placed over a 5♣ opening bid? He would think you were more likely to hold something like 8 or 9 clubs to the KQ rather than the AK. And there is certainly no guarantee that you won't have 3 losers opposite a 4441 14 count.

[hanp]

You are right, partner would be just as badly placed over a 5C opening bid, both 3C and 5C have a serious risk of missing slam. At least 5C is more preemptive, 3C is just nothing.

[jdonn]

ArtK78, on Apr 27 2009, 01:52 PM, said:

One should not criticise the method without any experience playing it or against it. Of course, if it actually makes you physically ill, you can forward the doctor's bill to me.

The illness wasn't toward the method, it was toward its use with a 9 card suit, king on the side, and void.

[EricK]

5♣ for me.

Yes I might miss some slams. But, trust me, I'd miss them anyway.