[Winstonm]

I voted for transfer and then 3D. Although in slam try range, we need to find out if we have fitting hands. I believe it important to bid the suits for that reason.

The worst response over 3D would be 3N. Over this I can continue with 4H or simply make a general slam try of 5S.

I prefer the 5S bid as that indicates that controls in clubs and hearts are not critical, and hence the problems must be in the two bid suits.

Edit: Also, unless 4C would show definite shortness, I would avoid it to prevent partner from overvaluating K or KQ in clubs.

[MFA]

Winstonm, on Dec 25 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

I voted for transfer and then 3D.  Although in slam try range, we need to find out if we have fitting hands.  I believe it important to bid the suits for that reason.

The worst response over 3D would be 3N.  Over this I can continue with 4H or simply make a general slam try of 5S. 

I prefer the 5S bid as that indicates that controls in clubs and hearts are not critical, and hence the problems must be in the two bid suits.

Edit: Also, unless 4C would show definite shortness, I would avoid it to prevent partner from overvaluating K or KQ in clubs.

Perhaps Jacoby + 3D + 5C (over 3NT)?
It is a 'void', but is it also 'wood'?

[Winstonm]

MFA, on Dec 25 2008, 04:46 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Dec 25 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

I voted for transfer and then 3D.  Although in slam try range, we need to find out if we have fitting hands.  I believe it important to bid the suits for that reason.

The worst response over 3D would be 3N.  Over this I can continue with 4H or simply make a general slam try of 5S. 

I prefer the 5S bid as that indicates that controls in clubs and hearts are not critical, and hence the problems must be in the two bid suits.

Edit: Also, unless 4C would show definite shortness, I would avoid it to prevent partner from overvaluating K or KQ in clubs.

Perhaps Jacoby + 3D + 5C (over 3NT)?
It is a 'void', but is it also 'wood'?

Problem is that 5C may be better used as Exclusion, don't you think?

I am out of the loop as far as playing, but unless there has been significant improvements in bidding in the past couple years it is still hard to get to these types of grand slams - so I am still simply trying to bid the small slam when I should and avoid it when it isn't a good bet.

When you bid 2H, 3D, 5S you effectively eliminate clubs and hearts as problem holdings. The question then for partner to ask is why couldn't you take over and make an ace-asking bid? Why 5S? The answer to that question is that slam needs more information than simply aces. Reason then implies that fits within the bid suits must be the problem.

As a BTW, a hand such as Qx, Qxx, KQx, AKJxx probably could not avoid slam in the suggested auction by understanding that AKJ has to be across from shortness if partner has clubs and hearts both controlled - after all, heart King could be Ace.

And I don't worry about that hand. There are worse bridge sins than getting to slam off two cashing aces - and holding out for perfection in bidding is a losing cause.

[MFA]

I'm not so sure it makes sense to have this 5♣ bid as exclusion.
What hand decides to show the diamond suit, gets the worst possible reply, and then figures that slam is all about aces outside clubs (with spades as trumps)? Hmm.

Anyway, I would certainly not bid like this unless I knew for sure that partner would be on the same wavelength.

5♠ makes sense but showing the void, if possible, would be a tad better.

[Winstonm]

MFA, on Dec 25 2008, 05:52 PM, said:

I'm not so sure it makes sense to have this 5♣ bid as exclusion.
What hand decides to show the diamond suit, gets the worst possible reply, and then figures that slam is all about aces outside clubs (with spades as trumps)? Hmm.

Anyway, I would certainly not bid like this unless I knew for sure that partner would be on the same wavelength.

5♠ makes sense but showing the void, if possible, would be a tad better.

Probably so. I am convincable with a reasoned argument. And your is such.

Of course, just to toss a monkey into the mix, I could transfer, bid 3D, exclude and then bid 5N pick a slam.

[MFA]

Winstonm, on Dec 25 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

Of course, just to toss a monkey into the mix, I could transfer, bid 3D, exclude and then bid 5N pick a slam. 

So many different styles of bidding .
For me, exclusion + 5NT would be similar to RCK + 5NT.