[gnasher]

catatonic, on Dec 21 2008, 01:09 PM, said:

now , imho , the doublers bidding is  correct , don't open , then x.... am I alone here?

It's a matter of style. I'd have opened 1♥, but pass is sensible too.

[CSGibson]

catatonic, on Dec 21 2008, 05:09 AM, said:

now , imho , the doublers bidding is correct , don't open , then x.... am I alone here?

It's a matter of style, I would open 2♥

[benlessard]

Quote

In my opinion, it is very important to collect a number here when responder is just balanced with 8+ points. I will lose when we really have them nutted, but it seems worse, just based on frequency, to wait until this happens.

You are not trying to set 2Hx you are trying to make 2Hx So usually you
need to have them nutted to play 2Hx in a 4-2 fit.

[gwnn]

OK but sometimes it's not a 4-2 fit. Sometimes it's a 4-3 or 4-4.

[benlessard]

Usually partner minimum holding to think about passing is Hx. So XX show at least enough goodies that 2H redouble (making 8 tricks) is possible.

[peachy]

han, on Dec 20 2008, 06:03 PM, said:

maggieb, on Dec 20 2008, 05:31 PM, said:

gnasher and han, it sounds like you play redouble as a much stronger suggestion to play than I do.

I like a very cooperative style of redoubling. In my opinion, it is very important to collect a number here when responder is just balanced with 8+ points. I will lose when we really have them nutted, but it seems worse, just based on frequency, to wait until this happens.

If we have 4 hearts and 2 spades we can pass, maybe partner will redouble. I play that partner's double means it is our hand and he is willing to sit if we have 4 decent hearts. With the actual hand I would bid 2S though, showing 3 spades. I think the hand is pretty good for spades.

I assume you meant "partner's re-double" [not "partner's double"]
To my knowledge, the auction
1NT (P) 2H (DBL)
P (P) Rdbl
is a re-transfer to spades by responder.

The interesting question is what would 2S mean, these auctions don't happen very often.

[catatonic]

peachy has hit the nail on the head...these auctions don't come up often ...certainly I [ as stated ] have no comprehensive agreements on it

is there a case for agreeing that rdl says hearts strongly held for NT purposes , not to play there [ what are the chances of making this contract anyway ] ; then pt with 5 bad spades , no heart stop but an invitational or game going hand will not fear playing in NT

in addition [ without deep thought ] something like

pass ....no strong heart holding , poor spade support

2!S......ditto , reasonable spade support

3!S......nothing in hearts , max , big spade fit

or similar

[han]

Quote

I assume you meant "partner's re-double" [not "partner's double"]

Good.

Quote

To my knowledge, the auction
1NT (P) 2H (DBL)
P (P) Rdbl
is a re-transfer to spades by responder.

Well, I can only tell you what I play.

[JLOL]

rogerclee, on Dec 20 2008, 10:33 AM, said:

redoblo

LOL

[gnasher]

By opener, I sometimes play:

- Redouble = 3 spades, no positional heart holding, suggesting that responder play the hand in order to protect his putative heart holding.
- 2♠ = 3 spades and a heart holding that suggests that there is no benefit to responder playing the hand.
- Pass = not 3 spades; then responder can bid 2♠ to play the hand himself, or redouble to force opener to bid 2♠.

[catatonic]

interesting comments folks

but I am a little surprised that nobody commented on the question that I deliberately omitted !!

when your pt opens a 15-17 NT in 3rd hand , would you transfer or pass on
AJxxx, xx,xxx,xxx ?

[cherdano]

catatonic, on Dec 23 2008, 05:55 AM, said:

interesting comments folks

but I am a little surprised that nobody commented on the question that I deliberately omitted !!

when your pt opens a 15-17 NT in 3rd hand , would you transfer or pass on
AJxxx, xx,xxx,xxx ?

Transfer.

[cherdano]

gnasher, on Dec 22 2008, 02:58 PM, said:

By opener, I sometimes play:

- Redouble = 3 spades, no positional heart holding, suggesting that responder play the hand in order to protect his putative heart holding.
- 2♠ = 3 spades and a heart holding that suggests that there is no benefit to responder playing the hand.
- Pass = not 3 spades; then responder can bid 2♠ to play the hand himself, or redouble to force opener to bid 2♠.

I hope I will remember it is safe to double your transfers when I play against you in the BB final.

[gnasher]

cherdano, on Dec 23 2008, 12:58 PM, said:

I hope I will remember it is safe to double your transfers when I play against you in the BB final.

There's more than one sort of risk. Perhaps your double will lead to our playing in 4♠ from responder's side with his king protected, when left to our own devices we would have played from opener's side.

[JLOL]

catatonic, on Dec 23 2008, 06:55 AM, said:

when your pt opens a 15-17 NT in 3rd hand , would you transfer or pass on
AJxxx, xx,xxx,xxx ?

LOL

[peachy]

han, on Dec 22 2008, 01:51 PM, said:

Quote

I assume you meant "partner's re-double" [not "partner's double"]

Good.

Quote

To my knowledge, the auction
1NT (P) 2H (DBL)
P (P) Rdbl
is a re-transfer to spades by responder.

Well, I can only tell you what I play.

Playing Jacoby Transfers, AFAIK (and so stated in many writeups) Rdbl by responder *is* a re-transfer to the suit he was originally transferring to.

Your system is different from standard, AFAIK. I don't have an opinion what is better, only what is standard.

[dake50]

At my club the blue XX cards have new shiny look --as if never used. I use one here.

[catatonic]

despite llol's rather cryptic post , I think the positional factor here isn't generally taken into account ; when a hand is passed around to pt you know a lot more about the hand of the opp that has passed than you would if pt had opened 1NT in first hand eg

that hand lacks not only the strength to open with a 1 level bid , but also the shape for a pre-empt at the 2, 3, or 4 level ; therefore the odds on various distributions have changed ; I wish my maths was good enough to calculate the odds on pass or transfer , but certainly I suspect that passing could be correct opposite a third hand opener

[Fluffy]

you mean pass with 5c major when partner opens 1NT?, this has been calculated many times, transfer is much better.