[mike777]

jillybean2, on Dec 22 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

Sorry, I still dont know how to bid this after opening 1♣. Unless you have a special agreement  2♥ is a ♠ fit.

I would open 5c but if you open one club and get lucky that Lho bids 1h then:


P=P=1C=(1H)
1S=P=2H=?
3D=P=5C..NOW

2H=GENERAL CUEBID, BIG HAND, TELL ME MORE PARTNER.

[jillybean]

mike777, on Dec 22 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Dec 22 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

Sorry, I still dont know how to bid this after opening 1♣. Unless you have a special agreement  2♥ is a ♠ fit.

I would open 5c but if you open one club and get lucky that Lho bids 1h then:


P=P=1C=(1H)
1S=P=2H=?
3D=P=5C..NOW

2H=GENERAL CUEBID, BIG HAND, TELL ME MORE PARTNER.

2♥ is a ♠ fit!

[han]

No, 2H does not show spade support Kathryn.

[jillybean]

Why, because ♠ bidder is a passed hand?

[han]

No, when opener cuebids like this it doesn't show support.

[jillybean]

oh , back to the drawing board then,
I dont understand this

[han]

As for why 2H shouldn't show spade support, the reason is that you just need it for other kinds of hands. A typical hand is a strong hand with a good long minor. You can't rebid your suit since 2m and 3m are not forcing, 4m takes you above 3NT. Some will tell you to jump to 3H to ask for a stopper or something, but obviously that doesn't help on a hand like this where you aren't actually interested in the stopper but rather would like to hear more about partner's hand.

I think a good guideline to remember is that a cuebid shows support if it is your first bid only.

[MarkDean]

han, on Dec 22 2008, 08:17 PM, said:

As for why 2H shouldn't show spade support, the reason is that you just need it for other kinds of hands. A typical hand is a strong hand with a good long minor. You can't rebid your suit since 2m and 3m are not forcing, 4m takes you above 3NT. Some will tell you to jump to 3H to ask for a stopper or something, but obviously that doesn't help on a hand like this where you aren't actually interested in the stopper but rather would like to hear more about partner's hand.

I think a good guideline to remember is that a cuebid shows support if it is your first bid only.

While I agree that normally here the cue does not show support, what has always confused me is why we need a call for a forcing single suiter now when we did not have had one if RHO had passed.

[jillybean]

han, on Dec 22 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

As for why 2H shouldn't show spade support, the reason is that you just need it for other kinds of hands. A typical hand is a strong hand with a good long minor. You can't rebid your suit since 2m and 3m are not forcing, 4m takes you above 3NT. Some will tell you to jump to 3H to ask for a stopper or something, but obviously that doesn't help on a hand like this where you aren't actually interested in the stopper but rather would like to hear more about partner's hand.

I think a good guideline to remember is that a cuebid shows support if it is your first bid only.

Ok, and if you do have gf support you will cue then show support on your next bid?

[mike777]

jillybean2, on Dec 23 2008, 12:15 AM, said:

han, on Dec 22 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

As for why 2H shouldn't show spade support, the reason is that you just need it for other kinds of hands. A typical hand is a strong hand with a good long minor. You can't rebid your suit since 2m and 3m are not forcing, 4m takes you above 3NT. Some will tell you to jump to 3H to ask for a stopper or something, but obviously that doesn't help on a hand like this where you aren't actually interested in the stopper but rather would like to hear more about partner's hand.

I think a good guideline to remember is that a cuebid shows support if it is your first bid only.

Ok, and if you do have gf support you will cue then show support on your next bid?

Keep in mind if you had a game force in spades ...over partner's one spade bid, you might have rebid.....
4c=specific club and game force spade hand
4h=splinter and game force spade hand
4s= strong game force hand

in other words, you did have other options to show a strong game force spade raise over one spade by pard.

think about this, you open one club, pard responds one spade, and now you have a game force in spades, you have many options other than only a 2h cuebid to show game force in spades.

[han]

Yes, agree with Mike777.

[jillybean]

mike777, on Dec 22 2008, 10:26 PM, said:

4c=specific club and game force spade hand

Please tell me more about this specific ♣ ?

[han]

Many experienced players use 1C - 1S - 4C (no interference) to show 6+ strong clubs (some say solid) and 4-card support. A typical hand might be KQxx Kx x AKQxxx. You can agree to play this if they overcall at the 1-level if you like.

With some players I would assume this gadget without discussion but with many I would not.

[CSGibson]

jillybean2, on Dec 22 2008, 10:15 PM, said:

han, on Dec 22 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

As for why 2H shouldn't show spade support, the reason is that you just need it for other kinds of hands. A typical hand is a strong hand with a good long minor. You can't rebid your suit since 2m and 3m are not forcing, 4m takes you above 3NT. Some will tell you to jump to 3H to ask for a stopper or something, but obviously that doesn't help on a hand like this where you aren't actually interested in the stopper but rather would like to hear more about partner's hand.

I think a good guideline to remember is that a cuebid shows support if it is your first bid only.

Ok, and if you do have gf support you will cue then show support on your next bid?

Or you could just bid game. You have tons of ways to raise spades, showing various strengths and distributions (2♠, 3♠, 4♠, splinters, 4♣, etc). There's almost no need to have a cue-bid by the opener show support for responder's suit.

edit: oops, see that Mike has already addressed this. Sorry for the repeat.

[jillybean]

han, on Dec 22 2008, 11:02 PM, said:

Many experienced players use 1C - 1S - 4C (no interference) to show 6+ strong clubs (some say solid) and 4-card support. A typical hand might be KQxx Kx x AKQxxx. You can agree to play this if they overcall at the 1-level if you like.

With some players I would assume this gadget without discussion but with many I would not.

Then is 1♣:1♠ 4♦ specifically 4315?

[cherdano]

jillybean2, on Dec 23 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

han, on Dec 22 2008, 11:02 PM, said:

Many experienced players use 1C - 1S - 4C (no interference) to show 6+ strong clubs (some say solid) and 4-card support. A typical hand might be KQxx Kx x AKQxxx. You can agree to play this if they overcall at the 1-level if you like.

With some players I would assume this gadget without discussion but with many I would not.

Then is 1♣:1♠ 4♦ is specifically 4315?

Well it could also be 4414 or 4405, or 4216 where your clubs aren't so good and you want to show the shortness instead.

[jillybean]

cherdano, on Dec 23 2008, 12:46 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Dec 23 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

han, on Dec 22 2008, 11:02 PM, said:

Many experienced players use 1C - 1S - 4C (no interference) to show 6+ strong clubs (some say solid) and 4-card support. A typical hand might be KQxx Kx x AKQxxx. You can agree to play this if they overcall at the 1-level if you like.

With some players I would assume this gadget without discussion but with many I would not.

Then is 1♣:1♠ 4♦ is specifically 4315?

Well it could also be 4414 or 4405, or 4216 where your clubs aren't so good and you want to show the shortness instead.

I think I'll just stick to splinters with 4xx6 hands

[CSGibson]

jillybean2, on Dec 23 2008, 01:02 AM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 23 2008, 12:46 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Dec 23 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

han, on Dec 22 2008, 11:02 PM, said:

Many experienced players use 1C - 1S - 4C (no interference) to show 6+ strong clubs (some say solid) and 4-card support. A typical hand might be KQxx Kx x AKQxxx. You can agree to play this if they overcall at the 1-level if you like.

With some players I would assume this gadget without discussion but with many I would not.

Then is 1♣:1♠ 4♦ is specifically 4315?

Well it could also be 4414 or 4405, or 4216 where your clubs aren't so good and you want to show the shortness instead.

I think I'll just stick to splinters with 4xx6 hands

do you have another use for the sequence 1m-1M-4m?

[jillybean]

CSGibson, on Dec 23 2008, 01:53 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Dec 23 2008, 01:02 AM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 23 2008, 12:46 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Dec 23 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

han, on Dec 22 2008, 11:02 PM, said:

Many experienced players use 1C - 1S - 4C (no interference) to show 6+ strong clubs (some say solid) and 4-card support. A typical hand might be KQxx Kx x AKQxxx. You can agree to play this if they overcall at the 1-level if you like.

With some players I would assume this gadget without discussion but with many I would not.

Then is 1♣:1♠ 4♦ is specifically 4315?

Well it could also be 4414 or 4405, or 4216 where your clubs aren't so good and you want to show the shortness instead.

I think I'll just stick to splinters with 4xx6 hands

do you have another use for the sequence 1m-1M-4m?

No, it is too much load on the brain cells and not something Im likely to want to discuss with a partner any time soon.

[awm]

I'd explain the cuebid a bit differently, although the meaning is the same.

There are some hands where, without interference, you would rebid 2NT or 3NT. The first normally shows 18-19 balanced and the second shows a strong semi-balanced one-suiter. However, now that the opponents have bid, your notrump rebids should show a stopper in their suit (some make an exception for one notrump, but certainly 2NT/3NT should show a stopper).

This leaves you without a bid on a number of strong hands without a stopper. On the other hand, you will never really want to make a natural reverse into the opponents' suit, so the cuebid is freed up. It makes sense to let this cuebid show a "big hand with no clear direction" to handle these problem types. The cuebid also takes care of the annoying "game-forcing one suiter" that is hard to show in standard bidding, but this is more a side-effect. The meaning of this cue is just "I have a big hand" -- it does not promise support. Note that in the auction 1♣-1♥-1♠-Pass you have plenty of ways to raise spades: 2♠, 3♦, 3♥, 3♠, 4♣, 4♦, 4♥, and 4♠ are all commonly played as raises of various description.

In general the meanings of cuebids can be fairly complicated. Here are some general rules; hopefully I haven't left anything obvious out.

(1) If our side has made no prior call but pass and opponents have bid only one suit, then cuebid is michaels at the two and four level, stopper ask at the three-level.

(2) If our side has made no prior call but pass and double, and opponents have bid two or more suits, then cuebidding a suit which opponents have bid but not raised is usually natural. This is the only common situation where a cuebid of their naturally bid suit is natural.

(3) If partner has doubled and we have made no prior call but pass, then cuebid shows two places to play or a hand with game forcing values. This will normally be clarified at next turn.

(4) If partner has bid a suit but we have made no prior call but pass, then cuebid is a strong raise of partner's suit.

(5) If we have previously bid a suit or doubled, then cuebid shows general values. This is almost always values for game, with the exception of auctions where partner could be completely broke (i.e. we doubled, partner bid, we cue -- it just shows a big hand, not necessarily GF). On occasion the cue doesn't show any extras at all, for example 1♠-2♥-3♦-Pass-3♥ is just a forcing punt trying to get to the right game (the auction is already forced to game here).

(6) There are some situations late in auctions where opponents have bid two or more suits, where bidding one of their suits shows control of that suit for 3NT.