[TwstofLime]

Discouraged to see the announcement of the new German Bridge Club soon to begin on BBO. I have always seen online bridge as one of the great ways to encourage worldwide communication and "oneness" of the players of many countries, as we sit at the same table to share our love of the game. Bridge is an international language and allows Italians and Indians, Canadians and Chinese, Russians and Romanians to partner and compete in a respectful environment.

I wish the German Club's members, as well as other national club's members, success with their club's purpose and vision. I do understand that bridge lessons given in a specific language are much more effective as we continue to learn, but I hope each one of you will take the time to continue to play with your friends around the world.

Sandy
(TwstofLime)

[pclayton]

Look, just because Cherdano isn't going to Life Master anytime soon, doesn't mean we should punish Germany.

Looking at the list, it appears that we already have clubs from Finland, France, Italy, Poland, Turkey, Netherlands, Greece, and Ireland.

I guess I don't see your point.

[fred]

By offering tournaments that are sanctioned by the German Bridge Federation (DBV) I believe we are providing a valuable service to our members from Germany. For example:

- Some German players prefer to play bidding systems that are unfamiliar to most players in most parts of the world and/or would be considered illegal in most of the other tournaments on our site.

- Some German players do not speak English. Surely they appreciate the chance to play in a tournament where they can communicate effectively with the other players and the TD.

- We are hoping to be able to offer DBV masterpoints in these tournaments (we might be doing this already - I am not sure of the status). This is something that a lot of our German members will care about.

- Most major National Bridge Federations have their own rules concerning things like which bids should be alerted. By providing tournaments that are run according to DBV rules, our German members have the opportunity to play in high quality events in which the rules are familiar to them.

- I suspect the DBV also sees this as a way to provide additional service to their existing members as well as a way to attract new members (something that all National Bridge Federations care a lot about). Of course having a strong and healthy DBV is also very much in the interest of all German bridge players.

We are certainly not trying to fragment our membership based on nationality (German or otherwise). Instead you should see this as an attempt to provide additional service geared toward a specific segment of our membership. Of course our many German members are welcome to play anywhere else on BBO and, since there are currently only a small number of DBV tournaments scheduled each week, most of them will do just that during most of the time they spend on our site.

I suspect and hope that other National Bridge Federations will soon be working with us to establish similar tournaments geared towards players from their respective countries.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[TwstofLime]

I understand that hundreds of countries have national bridge organizations such as the Bridge Federation of India and the German Bridge Federation. I also understand different countries have different methods of sanctioned play that may or may not be sanctioned in other systems.

My intent is not to "punish" Germany, as Phil has described, but to unite with Germany and the many countries of the world in the love of this game.

With your explanation, Fred, I understand that BBO is offering an additional service for members of different national clubs and their members--yes, as you have explained it, it is a good thing.

My wish is simply to have BBO continue to provide the world bridge community an opportunity where players from many countries may play side-by-side--a membership that rises above borders and walls created by politics, religions, and national boundaries.

Sandy

[jtfanclub]

fred, on Sep 12 2008, 06:59 PM, said:

I suspect and hope that other National Bridge Federations will soon be working with us to establish similar tournaments geared towards players from their respective countries.

I don't see any advantage to these being nationality based, instead of sponsor based.

For example, we have ACBL tourneys, which use English and ACBL rules and alerts. But anybody who agrees to follow that is allowed to play in them.

I certainly have no problem with DBV tourneys, and having them clearly be German language only, and that they'd be designed with DBV members in mind. But I would hope that they will not in fact be German (the country) only games. Are the Swiss allowed to play?

[Gerben42]

Quote

I certainly have no problem with DBV tourneys, and having them clearly be German language only, and that they'd be designed with DBV members in mind. But I would hope that they will not in fact be German (the country) only games. Are the Swiss allowed to play?

Everyone who speaks German can play in these games. That's the only restriction, really. This is of interest mostly to German, Swiss and Austrian members, but we have many players from the rest of the world.

The main bridge population in Germany does not speak English very well, and we already had problems in our tournaments with foreign pairs who can understand German, but speak Italian / Polish / whatever between boards.

Many German-speaking players who understand English will no doubt continue to play on international tables and tournaments, for example Unibridge. But your average 70-year old bridge player does not understand English and wants to play games with people he or she can communicate with. So this is an extra service provided by the German Bridge Federation, especially for such players.

[NickRW]

Well I agree with everyone. For those that can play in an "international" setting (which in practice usually means speaking reasonable English - though there is no reason it has to be) - then that is all well and good and the general sentiments of the OP are actually quite laudable.

However there are those who will prefer German rules or are only comfortable in a German speaking environment. Let them play too.

Live and let live.

Nick

P.S. Heck, most of us could learn to speak Esperanto if we had to - it isn't a difficult language if you can speak any language of european origin. Even the Chinese don't have a hard time with it apparently.

[mycroft]

Now, granted, I have had some French in school, so it's not completely unfamiliar to me...but the Bridge Language wasn't part of that.

That didn't stop me from playing in the heart of French Montreal, with a partner whose English was worse than my French, in French. And my accent was only remarked on by one person. It did take about 15 minutes beforehand learning "pique, coeur, carreau, trèfle, un...vingt-quatre (which I already knew), Roi, Dame, Valet", and couleur instead of suit, though.

Most of which, on BBO, I can cheat with. I have played a Czech tournament (with a Czech partner), learning "hello" "Precision" and a couple of other words. No, I didn't understand the discussion. Yes, they did understand my bids.

All I'm saying is that you don't have to learn the language, just the Jargon specific to the game. Frankly, it would be fun to play in the DBV games. And I know I'd feel as uncomfortable as all the people whose English is as good as meinen Deutsch. But that wouldn't stop me. Have to go talk to my partner now (who is fluent in German as well as Czech and English :-).

[Tola18]

There is one more aspect for one-language places.

Training sessions. Or coaching sessions. In my case, we are swedish-spoken. And difficult intellectual explanations are of course easier to give and receive in ones motherlanguage, not the foreign english - even if you can decent english.
So. I open a board, write on the board description NS training session, and we play against the players who do come. Comments about bidding and play mostly in swedish.
It is quite common opps do object. Its english according to the rules!
Or even: you are too slow, bid please...


That analysis here in this thread points most languages will have some sort of niches with time. Own club or own tournaments or something.

I dont think it is any drawback. The main club and the other open clubs like WP Refugees, and the open tournaments, will ALWAYS be the main alternative for the most players.

[onoway]

I'm not sure if it counts but I have played fairly often in Turkish or Polish run tourneys and always been made to feel most welcome. They happilly take my dollar, forgive me for not speaking their language and I don't expect them to speak mine, as I am a guest. The only complaint I have was I played my heart out for weeks last year and never managed to win a t-shirt