[fan13027]

Perhaps this thread is more appropriate for the software requests/suggestions forum, and if so, moderators can feel free to move it. Or, if my rant is too hot a topic, I guess moderators will remove the post entirely ... feel free!

First the rant ....

My partner and I play very regularly in the eveings on BBO, usually 3 or 4 tourneys each evening. Invariably all the tourneys WE participate in are marked as either English OnlyDuring Bidding and Play or just plain English Only.

Unfortunately not everyone abides by these rules and speaks foreign languages anyway. I consider myself tolerant and don't really mind at all as long as it is not during actual bidding or play. Lately, however, after repeated similar experiences, I am becoming convinced that it is NOT lack of english skills or ignorance of the rules that causes this behavior but purely a clear disrespect/disregard for the rules as posted.

My partner and I always observe the language rules (and all other tourney rules) as posted, even though we are both fluent in Hungarian. When we first encountered these situations, my partner suggested that if opps, after politely being requested to observe posted rules, continue to speak non-English during bidding or play that we play tit-for-tat and begin using our Hungarian language skills as well.

I insisted however that we maintain the "high road", refrain from playing the childish games, and simply call Director after repeated offenses. Maintaing the "moral high road" has provided for some amount of self-satisfaction for a period of time but my patience is quickly wearing thin on this issue. Opps continue to abuse the rules and when the Director is called they either maintain complete silence or apologize in (surprisingly) good English. As soon as the Director leaves the table they revert right back to the previous behavior.

So my partner and I have reached the place where we no longer wish to tolerate this and I have relented and told him I would happily engage in the tit-for-tat game he originally suggested.


And now the question ....

I know that tournament directors can turn chat completely off. I have seen it happen when tourney participants begin discussing hand results that other tables have not yet played, or when perhaps (as during the recent US elections) general chat becomes too polarized or over-heated.

So the question is, could the software not be modified for directors to have an option to AUTOMATICALLY turn off chat at tables during Bidding and Play and have it turned back on during other intervals (I guess this would only really be useful in Swiss Movement tourneys where there is usually a lot of waiting for other tables to finish). Is this a valid solution? Should more tournament directors consider just turning off chat entirely during a tourney? I know this latter would not be a popular solution as many player consider these tourneys a "social" event and enjoy keeping up with their friends in far off places, as do partner and I. Or, do partner and I sink to their level and begin engaging in the childish games?

Edit: One last question. Do tourney directors only see the current chat at tables, or do they have a way of scrolling back thru chat before they arrived at the table thereby allowing them to VERIFY that rules have been broken?

Even though I've never been one, I know that the tourney directors job is a difficult and (often) thankless task. If there are any TDs reading this post I would particulary appreciate your thoughts, insights, and past experiences with this situation.

[rona_]

Quote

One last question. Do tourney directors only see the current chat at tables, or do they have a way of scrolling back thru chat before they arrived at the table thereby allowing them to VERIFY that rules have been broken?

They can only see current chat at tables.

[helene_t]

Kindly remind them to follow the rules. If they persist call the TD.

As a TD I give the non-English speakers one warning and then boot them if they persist.

[Codo]

I agree with your rant and find it impolite and improper behaviour to be so rude and talk in a different language.

But otoh this is not my main business. So I always let them talk like they want. Maybe they don't know english, maybe they did not read or understand the rules, maybe they are rude. The most I do is to talk German to my partner.
I would never call the TD.

[P_Marlowe]

# Just because other act like idiots, this is no excuse to behave like
a idiot.
# Turning of chat on the table is not a good idea, sometimes you
need the chat options to eplain certain things, and it is
inconvienent to always use the boxes directing the chat, so
disallowing table chat would be more harm than good.
# Call the TD, if the TD does not react, dont play the tournament

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Dwingo]

These are distinct possibilities and hence you need to give your Opps some slack

1. The rules are in English. They might not have understood what is posted in the rules for the tourney or the Director's tourney chat at the start of the tourney.

2. Even if they know English, many of them don't bother to read the rules. This is especially true, if you get invited for the tourney by your friends who are online . You may be playing in MBC and accept an invitation from your friend and the next you know is, you have joined the tourney. There is no time to check out the rules for the tourney.

[glen]

fan13027, on Nov 19 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

... So my partner and I have reached the place where we no longer wish to tolerate this and I have relented and told him I would happily engage in the tit-for-tat game he originally suggested. ...

I believe you have the right approach here, but here's how I work it. If both opponents (not just one) talk during the bidding and/or play in a non-English language, I bring up Goggle translate and pick a language. Then I translate "What are they talking about?" into a random language and cut and paste that into the chat.

Opp1: Vorrei che hanno fatto. Siamo spiacenti, si è così semplice
Opp2: Sì, soprattutto perché gli oppositori svolto come idioti
Me: Hvad er det, de siger?
Opp1: Che lingua è che, mai visto prima
Me: Kas tās sakot?

This tends to work about 95% of the time. No need for a TD, no need to never play the tourneys again.

[1eyedjack]

The OP "rant" is not a big issue for me but I can see how it might be for others. That said ...

P_Marlowe, on Nov 19 2008, 11:40 AM, said:

# Turning of chat on the table is not a good idea, sometimes you
   need the chat options to eplain certain things, and it is
   inconvienent to always use the boxes directing the chat, so
   disallowing table chat would be more harm than good.

Leaving aside the obvious solution of chatting on Instant Messenger, cell phone or whatever for those so inclined, I don't entirely agree with P_Marlowe here. It will not be beyond the ability of the software developers to disable chat to partner during bidding and play whilst enabling chat to opponents. Indeed it has been mentioned in the past that a chat "to table except partner" option would be of value, so that you could explain matters to opponents and kibitzers at the same time (where it would not fit into, or is supplementary to, the alert dialog box).

Again, that said, a downside to disabling chat to partners is that also disables your ability to correct (at the appropriate time) a partner's misexplanation (many of which you will never get to see, so perhaps not so big a deal).

Now there's another idea: make self-alerts (and accompanying explanations)visible to partner at the end of the auction when you are in the declaring side, and at the end of play when you are the defending side. No, I don't think that will happen.

[helene_t]

1eyedjack, on Nov 19 2008, 06:07 PM, said:

a downside to disabling chat to partners is that also disables your ability to correct (at the appropriate time) a partner's misexplanation

You are not supposed to see partner's explanations.

If p plays a convention which you don't play, opps will get to see the convention on the basis of which partner makes his bid.

[jillybean]

One option available to TD's is to add a restriction only allowing players who have their BBO language set to English.
This does reduce the number of problems but also prevents other, honest players whose default language isnt English from playing. A work around is to add these players to an ‘include list’. Its a lot of work, Im not sure if it is worth the time but it does seem better than booting offenders only to have them join again next time.

[DrTodd13]

Maybe Fred could add an option to right-click on chat text (like you can do now to copy it) and use the google translation tools to translate from the source language to whatever target language you desire. Barring that, you can copy the text and use the translation tools yourself. It is a quick way to get some idea of what they are saying. The translation won't be perfect but it is generally good enough to figure out if the comments are innocent or potential misconduct.

[jillybean]

DrTodd13, on Dec 5 2008, 11:30 AM, said:

Maybe Fred could add an option to right-click on chat text (like you can do now to copy it) and use the google translation tools to translate from the source language to whatever target language you desire.  Barring that, you can copy the text and use the translation tools yourself.  It is a quick way to get some idea of what they are saying.  The translation won't be perfect but it is generally good enough to figure out if the comments are innocent or potential misconduct.

I think it is better to enforce the rule 'no chat during play/if you must chat use English' (or pick a language) rather than putting the onus on the non offending pair to decipher the opps chat.

You should not be talking during a hand, if you do need to you should probably be calling the td instead.