[Vilgan]

So.. having a partner discussion, and we are discussing responses after 1NT (weak) - X - p

He likes the idea of playing all systems on here. Aka 1NT - x - p - 2♣ is stayman, etc.

Having played weak NTs a lot, I really liked it when people did this against me. It seemed like we got either normal or good results against people who played this system. However, my personal sample size is somewhat small (maybe 10 times?) so definitely not ironclad.

From those with more experience, do the advantages of playing systems on (for example, finding 4-4 fits) outweigh the disadvantages?

[jdonn]

I always thought this was a very lousy method, the only advantage to me is that it's easy to remember. My basic agreements are things are natural, only pull the double with a weak hand like 0-4 or with lots of offense, and in general as the auction continues, lebensohl tends to apply.

[EricK]

My advice is to run naturally to the 2 level when very weak and with a long suit (i.e. don't run just because you have a balanced 2 count - partner may have it beat in his own hand, and you have no great chances of ending up in a good spot if he hasn't).

[FrancesHinden]

I don't like it because
i) you only bid when you are weak, so you don't need all those subtle invitational sequences that you need after a 1NT opener; if you have a game force opposite the double you just pass
ii) the doubler hasn't shown a balanced hand

Far more important is to get your agreements sorted out when they start running over the double (when is double take-out, when penalties; when is pass forcing; when does lebensohl apply and how forcing are non-lebensohl bids)

[pclayton]

We covered this one at one time, and I used to play 'systems on' after a penalty x. I don't anymore. Agree that 2♣ is just 'get the f out of dodge'.

Better to spend on your energy on what follow-ups mean in similar sequences - are FPs on?, etc..

[ASkolnick]

I play the "people's" system over a weak nt overcall, and I think it is a good system, but you need to take it all the way through.

While I agree over 1N-X-P, it probably is irrelevant of what you play (2C, xfers) since with good hands you rate to pass, its the auction 1N-X-2y- that is more important. Most people's 1N-X runouts are similar to overcalls of strong NT(capaletti, DONT, whatever), so the important part is playing your version of lebensohl, negative doubles over these calls, not over 1N-x-P.

Even though I play systems on, I would not look for a fit and 2C is scrambling.

[Free]

I prefer a simple yet efficient approach:
Pass = suggestion to play
RDbl = SOS, bid something (no 5 card suit unless 5-5)
2X = natural to play

Works very well in practice:
- After 1NT-Dbl-p-? opponent is under pressure. If he's weak, they're screwed, otherwise it's a pretty normal result unless you're a bit lucky. 1NTx+1 is no exception. 1NTx+2 is a poor result at MP, lose 1 imp at imps.
- After RDbl opener will bid his lowest 4 card suit. If he has a 4333, he'll bid 2♣. This is the only difficult part to handle in the system.
- When you have to play 2X after 1NT-Dbl-2X-..., opponents don't know your strength and length in your suit, so sometimes it's hard to defend against.

[awm]

The systems people play over notrump are mostly designed to find good games and slams. There are many sequences to invite (stayman followed by raise or notrump rebid, transfer followed by raise, etc) and force to game (transfer followed by new suit bid, stayman followed by suit bid, smolen, etc). These systems are not particularly good for signing off in the best partial all the time; in particular you cannot play in 2♣, you cannot play in 2♦ (unless you play Keri in which case you cannot scramble for the better major suit fit on 44xx), there is no particularly intelligent way to bid weak 4441 hands short in a major, and so forth.

Of course, even if you play a very weak notrump opening (say 9-11) it will still be "your hand" half the time. And if it's not your hand, opponents have to double you before you get a really bad result in 1NT, so you may as well pass and then make use of the extra calls (XX etc) before trying to scramble for a partial.

But the auction (1NT)-X is quite different. Here if you "go down in 1NT" (i.e. opponents make 1NT) then you are already getting a very bad result. And the vast majority of the hands where you would use those nice invites and game forces you have over your own side's 1NT opening are just passing 1NT-X anyway (since setting them two or three tricks is roughly as good as your own game contract).

My preferred methods look something like this:

(1) If opponents pass is forcing (some people play pass forces redouble) then all direct seat non-jump bids are natural and show a five-card suit with a weak hand. With a lousy hand and no five-card suit, pass and await developments (you will get another chance).

(2) If opponents pass is not forcing then 2♣ is a special bid starting a scramble. This shows a weak hand without a five-card suit (other than possibly clubs). Other calls remain natural and "to play."

(3) If opponents redouble and it's "to play" then same as case (2) over non-forcing pass.

(4) If opponents make some bid that indicates desire to play in the suit they named (for example 1NT-X-2♦ to play or 1NT-X-2♦ diamonds and a major) then double is takeout of that suit and shows at least modest values. Bidding a new suit at the two-level is natural, at least five cards, not forcing but not totally broke. Lebensohl is on. Pass is not forcing, but partner will normally balance with a takeout double if not holding 4+ cards in the opponents suit.

(5) If opponents make some bid that is totally artificial (for example 1NT-X-2♦ transfer to hearts) then double shows values and creates a forcing auction.