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quesiton

#1 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 08:21

1♣-1♥
1♠-1NT

does 2H must have extra here, or it could just be min 4315 ?
is 2D now a 4st forcing or a nat ?
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 08:45

2♦ is patterning out, it is invitational.

Most think that 2♥ shows extras. As I understand Bergen, 2♥ does not show extras because he says opener must show his 3-card support at his 3rd turn if he didn't show it at his second turn. But I might be misinterpreting Bergen.
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#3 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 08:46

Both matters of agreement.

It's a matter of partnership agreement what you rebid on a 4315 after 1C - 1H. If you rebid 1S, then 1C - 1H - 1S - 1NT - 2H probably doesn't show extras. If you always raise hearts on the first round, then the delayed sequence shows a better hand.

I play 1D - 1H - 1S - 1NT - 2C as natural non-forcing. I've agreed that 1C - 1H - 1S - 2D is also natural non-forcing, but only recently - it's not something to pull out undiscussed.
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#4 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 14:22

prefer it to show extras, since you're raising the level without any guarantees of a fit. Something like 15-17 or thereabouts.
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#5 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:31

FrancesHinden, on May 31 2008, 09:46 AM, said:

1C - 1H - 1S - 2D is also natural non-forcing

This looks strange to me, what will you do with forcing hands?
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#6 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 17:02

Flame, on May 31 2008, 11:31 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on May 31 2008, 09:46 AM, said:

1C - 1H - 1S - 2D is also natural non-forcing

This looks strange to me, what will you do with forcing hands?

I missed out the NT bid by responder.
1C - 1H - 1S - 1NT - 2D

You may have realised that from the context.

I do think 2D here shows extras, but not forcing extras.
This auction has only ever come up once, and we couldn't decide if forcing or not was better, so we decided to stick with NF for the time being and see if the auction ever comes up again.
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 17:17

FrancesHinden, on May 31 2008, 03:46 PM, said:

It's a matter of partnership agreement what you rebid on a 4315 after 1C - 1H.  If you rebid 1S, then 1C - 1H - 1S - 1NT - 2H probably doesn't show extras.

If you play this style, it makes sense to use the fourth suit sequence (1C-1H; 1S-1NT; 2D) as fourth-suit forcing, so that you have a way to cope with a stronger 4315. I'm not sure to what extent this is standard.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2008-May-31, 17:18

... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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