[Flame]

1♣-1♠
2♣-2♦

2D was new minor forcing, is my 2H now natural ? if it is nat then shouldnt 2H instead of the 2D be NF ?
after openers 2H, what is 3D ? nat or i4th suit forcing ? what about other bids now, 2S,2NT,3C,3H ? all invite only ? 3S ? GF with S ?

I had this sequence today and felt we dont handle it properly.

[TylerE]

I've never heard of 1♣ - 1♠ - 2♦ as NMF... it's a forcing reverse.

[rogerclee]

Standard here would be for 2♦ to be natural and forcing. If you are playing that 2♦ is artificial (fairly common) as a sort of NMF bid, then 2♥ by opener is natural and shows 4 hearts. The sequence

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♥

is nonforcing (but generally shows constructive values).

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♦
2♥ - ?

2♠ - Game forcing with 6+ spades.
2NT - Natural, invitational (with 5 spades)
3♣ - Natural, game forcing
3♦ - Natural, game forcing
3♥ - Natural, invitational
3♠ - Slam interest, very good spade suit

Sorry it is a little confusing that some of these are invitational and some are game forcing. The logic goes that "it is invitational, unless I have somehow excluded that hand type or it should obviously be forcing." The one that is kind of confusing is 3♣ being game forcing (I suppose you could argue 1-round force, but it is definitely forcing).

[jdonn]

rogerclee, on May 24 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

Standard here would be for 2♦ to be natural and forcing. If you are playing that 2♦ is artificial (fairly common) as a sort of NMF bid, then 2♥ by opener is natural and shows 4 hearts. The sequence

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♥

is nonforcing (but generally shows constructive values).

In standard bidding, that bid is forcing, although there are many who don't know it. We have been there many times.

[pclayton]

Agree with Roger here. Its good to point out this isn't NMF per se.

[rogerclee]

jdonn, on May 24 2008, 09:20 AM, said:

rogerclee, on May 24 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

Standard here would be for 2♦ to be natural and forcing. If you are playing that 2♦ is artificial (fairly common) as a sort of NMF bid, then 2♥ by opener is natural and shows 4 hearts. The sequence

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♥

is nonforcing (but generally shows constructive values).

In standard bidding, that bid is forcing, although there are many who don't know it. We have been there many times.

I said it was NF if you play 2♦ is a catchall forcing response. Do you mean that 2♥ is forcing anyway even if you play this? I don't see the merit.

[Flame]

Roger, this is great when responder is GF, but what if he is invitational with 5S ? Unbal with second suit in D or C fit

[andy_h]

A similar thread is here:
http://forums.bridge...topic=22166&hl=

[jdonn]

rogerclee, on May 24 2008, 11:45 AM, said:

jdonn, on May 24 2008, 09:20 AM, said:

rogerclee, on May 24 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

Standard here would be for 2♦ to be natural and forcing. If you are playing that 2♦ is artificial (fairly common) as a sort of NMF bid, then 2♥ by opener is natural and shows 4 hearts. The sequence

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♥

is nonforcing (but generally shows constructive values).

In standard bidding, that bid is forcing, although there are many who don't know it. We have been there many times.

I said it was NF if you play 2♦ is a catchall forcing response. Do you mean that 2♥ is forcing anyway even if you play this? I don't see the merit.

There is (arguably) little merit, but forcing is still the standard meaning.

[mike777]

Flame, on May 24 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

1♣-1♠
2♣-2♦

2D was new minor forcing, is my 2H now natural ? if it is nat then shouldnt 2H instead of the 2D be NF ?
after openers 2H, what is 3D ? nat or i4th suit forcing ? what about other bids now, 2S,2NT,3C,3H ? all invite only ? 3S ? GF with S ?

I had this sequence today and felt we dont handle it properly.

Good question. Good post. ty.

It does seem to be a good question of what the heck is standard. Throw in some common conventions such as Walsh style(4 spades may have longer d with invitational/weakish strength) or reverse drury(4h and 5s decent but less than invite) and what the heck is best use for:

1c=1s
2c=(2d or 3d)

[P_Marlowe]

Flame, on May 24 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

1♣-1♠
2♣-2♦

2D was new minor forcing, is my 2H now natural ? if it is nat then shouldnt 2H instead of the 2D be NF ?
after openers 2H, what is 3D ? nat or i4th suit forcing ? what about other bids now, 2S,2NT,3C,3H ? all invite only ? 3S ? GF with S ?

I had this sequence today and felt we dont handle it properly.

2D asks for further description.

#2H shows 4 hearts, min., denies 3 spades
#2H instead of 2D would be nonforcing
#3D after 2H is forcing, more general, all bids
by responder are gf

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: And yes, standard is, that every new suit by responder is natural
and forcing.