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slams, slams and more slams

#21 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-February-18, 21:46

cherdano, on Feb 18 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

I'm going to exclusion this. The ♥Q / or a 5th heart are critical, and I presume we have the tools to ask after pard's zero response. If pard has the right holding in hearts, I'll gamble a little that the diamonds aren't a problem and bid the grand.

7♥ is a little irresponsible I think.

While that may be true, noone so far suggested bidding 7♥ before trying keycard...

hehe I didn't read this post before I posted. Nice.
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#22 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-February-18, 21:47

Jlall, on Feb 18 2008, 09:46 PM, said:

cherdano, on Feb 18 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

I'm going to exclusion this. The ♥Q / or a 5th heart are critical, and I presume we have the tools to ask after pard's zero response. If pard has the right holding in hearts, I'll gamble a little that the diamonds aren't a problem and bid the grand.

7♥ is a little irresponsible I think.

While that may be true, noone so far suggested bidding 7♥ before trying keycard...

hehe I didn't read this post before I posted. Nice.

♥
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#23 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-February-18, 21:48

mikeh, on Feb 18 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

I'm going to exclusion this. The ♥Q / or a 5th heart are critical, and I presume we have the tools to ask after pard's zero response. If pard has the right holding in hearts, I'll gamble a little that the diamonds aren't a problem and bid the grand.

7♥ is a little irresponsible I think.

You actually save room via ordinary keycard: partner will bid 4N or5♣. We use 1430 in response to exclusion, which may not be best but is easy to remember, and so he will respond 5♦ to 4N. It makes little difference, but I wanted to be able to queen ask without having to bid 5♠ over 5♦, to avoid a length-showing double on my left (not sure that's what the opps would have understood, but I didn't want to find out)

Anyway, LHO bids 5♠ over any keycard, and partner passes (showing zero not matter what question you asked) and it's back to you.

Presumably 5N would now ask about the Q (6♣ would be specific Kings)?
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#24 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-February-18, 21:50

7♥ seems very normal after 4♥ but at this vulnerability I want to try and convince the opponents not to sacrifice.

I like 4♠ giving the illusion of a spade loser.

Over the pass I think I bid 6♣ as if I am still looking for something else. Now when I bid 7♥ later the opponents will imagine I am not that confident about all of this.
Wayne Burrows

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Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#25 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-February-18, 21:50

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 10:48 PM, said:

mikeh, on Feb 18 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

I'm going to exclusion this. The ♥Q / or a 5th heart are critical, and I presume we have the tools to ask after pard's zero response. If pard has the right holding in hearts, I'll gamble a little that the diamonds aren't a problem and bid the grand.

7♥ is a little irresponsible I think.

You actually save room via ordinary keycard: partner will bid 4N or5♣. We use 1430 in response to exclusion, which may not be best but is easy to remember, and so he will respond 5♦ to 4N. It makes little difference, but I wanted to be able to queen ask without having to bid 5♠ over 5♦, to avoid a length-showing double on my left (not sure that's what the opps would have understood, but I didn't want to find out)

Anyway, LHO bids 5♠ over any keycard, and partner passes (showing zero not matter what question you asked) and it's back to you.

Presumably 5N would be specific Kings and 6♣ would now ask about the Q?

Isn't the first step usually for Q ask and the second step usually for kings?
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#26 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-February-18, 21:51

Jlall, on Feb 18 2008, 07:50 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 10:48 PM, said:

mikeh, on Feb 18 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

I'm going to exclusion this. The ♥Q / or a 5th heart are critical, and I presume we have the tools to ask after pard's zero response. If pard has the right holding in hearts, I'll gamble a little that the diamonds aren't a problem and bid the grand.

7♥ is a little irresponsible I think.

You actually save room via ordinary keycard: partner will bid 4N or5♣. We use 1430 in response to exclusion, which may not be best but is easy to remember, and so he will respond 5♦ to 4N. It makes little difference, but I wanted to be able to queen ask without having to bid 5♠ over 5♦, to avoid a length-showing double on my left (not sure that's what the opps would have understood, but I didn't want to find out)

Anyway, LHO bids 5♠ over any keycard, and partner passes (showing zero not matter what question you asked) and it's back to you.

Presumably 5N would be specific Kings and 6♣ would now ask about the Q?

Isn't the first step usually for Q ask and the second step usually for kings?

Yeah I posted that and then changed it. 1st is definitely the Q ask.
"Phil" on BBO
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#27 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-February-18, 21:53

Cascade, on Feb 18 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

7♥ seems very normal after 4♥ but at this vulnerability I want to try and convince the opponents not to sacrifice.

I like 4♠ giving the illusion of a spade loser.

Over the pass I think I bid 6♣ as if I am still looking for something else. Now when I bid 7♥ later the opponents will imagine I am not that confident about all of this.

I think the best way to get them to not sac is to bid 7H over 4H immediately. If you bid 4S LHO can X and RHO can save, or LHO can bid 5S (yes that would be unusual but...) and RHO can save. To me the best way to get them to not save is to not allow them to COOPERATE in finding a fit, and just make them guess to do it.

The thing is assuming they think you are competent, once you bid 7H no matter how you got there you rate to be making it. If you have a hand you're gambling with it's more likely to be 7H immediately, rather than investigating and then bidding 7. If they think you might be having a screw up then fine, but I think it's more likely that going slow, especially with a 4S bid, allows LHO to show spades and RHO to suggest a save or RHO to just save etc.
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#28 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-February-18, 22:06

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 09:51 PM, said:

Jlall, on Feb 18 2008, 07:50 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 10:48 PM, said:

mikeh, on Feb 18 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

I'm going to exclusion this. The ♥Q / or a 5th heart are critical, and I presume we have the tools to ask after pard's zero response. If pard has the right holding in hearts, I'll gamble a little that the diamonds aren't a problem and bid the grand.

7♥ is a little irresponsible I think.

You actually save room via ordinary keycard: partner will bid 4N or5♣. We use 1430 in response to exclusion, which may not be best but is easy to remember, and so he will respond 5♦ to 4N. It makes little difference, but I wanted to be able to queen ask without having to bid 5♠ over 5♦, to avoid a length-showing double on my left (not sure that's what the opps would have understood, but I didn't want to find out)

Anyway, LHO bids 5♠ over any keycard, and partner passes (showing zero not matter what question you asked) and it's back to you.

Presumably 5N would be specific Kings and 6♣ would now ask about the Q?

Isn't the first step usually for Q ask and the second step usually for kings?

Yeah I posted that and then changed it. 1st is definitely the Q ask.

Isn't redouble the first step though? :P
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#29 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-February-18, 22:10

cherdano, on Feb 18 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 09:51 PM, said:

Jlall, on Feb 18 2008, 07:50 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 10:48 PM, said:

mikeh, on Feb 18 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 18 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

I'm going to exclusion this. The ♥Q / or a 5th heart are critical, and I presume we have the tools to ask after pard's zero response. If pard has the right holding in hearts, I'll gamble a little that the diamonds aren't a problem and bid the grand.

7♥ is a little irresponsible I think.

You actually save room via ordinary keycard: partner will bid 4N or5♣. We use 1430 in response to exclusion, which may not be best but is easy to remember, and so he will respond 5♦ to 4N. It makes little difference, but I wanted to be able to queen ask without having to bid 5♠ over 5♦, to avoid a length-showing double on my left (not sure that's what the opps would have understood, but I didn't want to find out)

Anyway, LHO bids 5♠ over any keycard, and partner passes (showing zero not matter what question you asked) and it's back to you.

Presumably 5N would be specific Kings and 6♣ would now ask about the Q?

Isn't the first step usually for Q ask and the second step usually for kings?

Yeah I posted that and then changed it. 1st is definitely the Q ask.

Isn't redouble the first step though? :P

I think they butt in with 5♠. Maybe pass is really the 1st step.
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#30 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-February-18, 22:14

I guess we both mean double, not pass or redouble :P
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#31 User is offline   Impact 

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Posted 2008-February-18, 23:06

2NT easy first time round intending to force to slam in D at least.....

but when partner bids 4H, I have an easy 5S (GSF under USP which allows him to show HQ if he has xxxxx or longer!!).

If not quite so sophisticated, 5NT as GSF....

regards
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#32 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 02:27

I do understands Wayne wish to bid 7 Heart without a sacrifice.
But I can see no reason not to bid 7 Heart after pds 4 heart bid. We must have at least 20 tricks and a direct jump makes it very difficult for them to find 7 Spade.

But after a direct 4 Spade as choosen at the table, I still go for 7 Heart.
Yes pd may have Kx, QJxxxxx,xxx,xx and we fail to a slow Diamond loser. Okay ***** happes, next board.
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#33 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 03:00

Codo, on Feb 19 2008, 09:27 PM, said:

I do understands Wayne wish to bid 7 Heart without a sacrifice.
But I can see no reason not to bid 7 Heart after pds 4 heart bid. We must have at least 20 tricks and a direct jump makes it very difficult for them to find 7 Spade.

But after a direct 4 Spade as choosen at the table, I still go for 7 Heart.
Yes pd may have Kx, QJxxxxx,xxx,xx and we fail to a slow Diamond loser. Okay ***** happes, next board.

You (and Justin) are right.

I all for 7♥ immediately.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#34 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 04:49

After 4♥, I'd try 6 or 7, depending on mood and match status. I'd like to know of the ♦Q, but I don't really think it's possible to find that one out without mad scientist methods :)

Note: it's probably better to ask for the ♥Q on the way to 6/7... just in case :)
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#35 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 09:27

At the table, the 5♠ call, plus my knowledge of partner's tendencies, caused me to decide to attempt a two-step when 5♠ came around to me. I bid 6♥, hoping that rho would bid 6♠ at the prevailing vulnerability, and thereby allow me to invite grand by passing. That is what happened, and partner doubled. +800 wasn't a great score but it was better than -100, which would have been our fate in 7♥.

In hindsight, jumping to 7♥ over 4♥ MIGHT have reeled in +1100... LHO was 7=1=2=3 (rho held QJx in hearts....7♦ makes if one guesses the hearts, but why would one?
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#36 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 12:40

What did partner have?
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#37 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 13:29

cherdano, on Feb 19 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

What did partner have?

Ugh!

It looks like partner had four small hearts and at most the diamond Queen, but with diamond support.

Cannot wait to see...
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#38 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 13:42

cherdano, on Feb 19 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

What did partner have?

1. A lot of respect for my red v white 2N

2. A lot of faith in his declarer play (well-founded, I should add... )

3. A love of vulnerable games

4. A horrible hand... certainly not everyone's choice: xx 98xx Qxx Jxxx
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#39 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 13:43

:o :o :o :o
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#40 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 13:45

mikeh, on Feb 19 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

cherdano, on Feb 19 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

What did partner have?

1. A lot of respect for my red v white 2N

2. A lot of faith in his declarer play (well-founded, I should add... )

3. A love of vulnerable games

4. A horrible hand... certainly not everyone's choice: xx 98xx Qxx Jxxx

5. A love for vulnerable doubled undertricks? :o
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